R'Shara (paraphrased)
Could you show me the equator line on the Scadrial map?
Isaac Stewart (paraphrased)
It runs very close to Elendel. *Points to it on the map*
And the Prime Meridian runs through Elendel.
Could you show me the equator line on the Scadrial map?
It runs very close to Elendel. *Points to it on the map*
And the Prime Meridian runs through Elendel.
Does Adolin Kholin have two different colored eyebrows?
I have never pictured him with two different colored eyebrows, but Isaac gets to canonize this, because he oversees the concept art. So really, you should pull Isaac aside and say, “Hey, is there some blonde in one of the eyebrows or not? Because I’ve seen them both.” I have not imagined him with different colored eyebrows.
We know that magical healing has a lot to do with Identity, like Lopen and Rysn. Suppose someone was tapping Identity from an unkeyed metalmind, and then you tried to heal them with any kind of magical healing. What would happen?
Most likely, that person’s perspective of themself is going to filter that unkeyed metalmind, and so what’s going to happen is what would normally happen to that person. In most instances. There are ways to get around that, but the vast majority, that’s what you’re gonna see.
And if they were storing Identity instead?
Then you’re gonna go back to their Cognitive picture of themselves, which is going to be what’s filtering this, how they see themselves. If you knock them unconscious, they can’t see themselves, you’re blanking them of Identity, and things like that. They still, basically, will have… it’s gonna be really hard to get that all separated. The mental picture of themselves still exists on the Spiritual Realm. Remember, Realmatics is based on Plato’s theories of the forms, but your perspective is what’s shaping that. So there’s still gonna be, like, on the Spiritual Realm, there’s gonna be some version of yourself that is deeply influenced by how you view yourself that is going to be what that Investiture is trying to match, it’s trying to bring your body into alignment with that. So you’ve gotta replace that thing if you want it to do something different. Which you can do with Hemalurgy.
Sometimes, Vin and Kelsier seem to notice people burning metal when there was a coppercloud around. So I was wondering if copperclouds can change depending on how much the smoker or mistborn wants it?
It’s gonna depend on a lot of factors. How strong is the coppercloud? How strong is the person piercing it? How Invested is the individual? And these sorts of things. There are deliberate points where Vin pierces a coppercloud that I intend to be moments that you’re supposed to pay attention to in the story. And this is done intentionally; this is not, like, a binary on/off.
The Stormlight Archive deals with mental health significantly. Are you telling a story of overcoming mental health and its difficulties, or are you telling a story of ongoing...
I am telling a story about characters that I want to be as real to my lived experience as possible. So the story of The Stormlight Archive, what is it about? It is not about mental health. It is about people, but a disproportionate number of them do struggle with kind of dynamic mental health issues.
Mental health is one of these things where there’s always individual answers. If we talk about my wife Emily, there is no cure for depression. Even medication is about managing depression. For her, the right answer is cognitive behavioral therapy and learning what it is to live with depression, and then countering that proactively in her mind, at least for her. That is the answer that she has found that works very well for her. Other people might be able to… I have had a family member who had depressive episodes that lasted a number of years. And they, through therapy, were able to get to where they no longer would be considered having depression, because for them it was a different sort of thing. And these are two explorations of what we would lump as the same sort of mental health issue. But is it even? Everyone is so individual, right?
For the vast majority of people struggling with mental health issues, it is more like Emily than it is like this family member that it was about overcoming it. I consider it to the individual, that the story I’m telling about. I will use the example of the difference between (for physical handicaps) Rysn and Lopen. For Lopen, the story is: there’s going to be a cure, and I have been cured. For Rysn, there is no cure, and it’s about, instead, living with the disability. Overcoming the disability, yes, but it always being part of who she is. And those are two life experiences that we can find people in this room who have probably... Some are continuing to live with a handicap, and others have found that there is some way to just completely get over. And that’s an individual thing.
And I’m not trying to say in The Stormlight Archive, “This is the right path.” Except for the right path being: getting help is okay. Working on it’s okay. And society should maybe do a better job about understanding it.
I have a question about the singers. If one of them were to reach the Third Heightening, would they then be able to sing the pure Tones of Scadrial?
Yes. They definitely could. They might be able to before they reached that Heightening, as well.
We have some idea that Autonomy is fiddling around in Roshar and in Scadrial.
And other places.
Considering her involvement with the Ghostbloods: has she directly interacted with Kelsier/Thaidakar?
RAFO.
Whether she has or not, what is her opinion of Kelsier?
You’re asking, directly Autonomy, not one of her Avatars? Directly, Autonomy likes Kelsier and respects Kelsier. Autonomy is a fan, shall we say.
At the end of Rhythm of War, we see Shard-induced time dilation; you bring a lot of Investiture into a place, and it slows down time.
It can also speed it up.
How much Investiture would it take to dilate an area so that one area moves forward about fifteen years into the future while everything else remains? Like, they have ten minutes, everyone else goes fifteen years?
There’s a couple variables here. Number one is the length of the area, and how fast that fifteen years passes. If we want us to jump forward fifteen years, in how much time? Fifteen years compared to one year? Fifteen years compared to one minute? Fifteen years compared to one second? These are all different things. And, of course, the more you’re compressing and the larger the area, the more Investiture you’re requiring.
Could two unchained Bondsmiths in the course of a duel do it?
Fifteen years? Fifteen years is gonna be a stretch for what they can get a hold of, but it depends. Unchained Bondsmith, unchained to (for instance) a deity that there is no longer a Vessel controlling that power in the way that it needs to have the limits on it is going to be able to access more than one where there was some Vessel there saying “no.” So there’s one factor in it. A Bondsmith can access a lot of power, as evidenced by the migration. The migration from Ashyn to Roshar happened with a Bondsmith powering some Elsecalling. And that allowed for some pretty crazy things. Getting an entire population moved through a portal across that much space is a lot of work and a lot of energy.
So what you’re asking, I think that’s stretching. Depends, again, on how long. Fifteen to one, not so hard. Fifteen years in a second is really hard and probably beyond what they have capacity to do.
I see what you’re doing there. You saw me talk around it.
When I asked about the Set and cards, would the names of some of the Set members (like Suit) be a codename? Or would it be a hierarchy name?
It’s a hierarchy name.
What would happen if a Pure Tone or anti-Tone interacted with Shard metal?
Different things can happen, but generally, if it’s the right Shard metal, you’re going to get a resonance or a destructive resonance to that Tone.
In Book One, Taravangian was talking to Szeth, when Szeth confronts him at the end. He talks about the Lifebrother; but we haven’t heard any other references since then.
You have not. That’s a RAFO.
When a Shard Splinters, does it have any effect on the cosmere that we aren’t seeing yet?
No.
What would be the effect if all the Shards Splintered?
It does have, but see, there is Splintering, and there’s Splintering. Traumatic Splintering is a different event than a Shard Splintering themselves, or things like this. There’s a whole continuum going on there.
All the Shards being Splintered would, of course, have an effect. But it could have all kinds of different effects based on how, and why, and what’s going on, and what happened to the different pieces of Investiture. You can have a full Splintering, where the Shard is just completely blasted into pieces. Or you can have a Shard taking off pieces of their soul and Splintering it out and sending it off to be self-aware, and things like that. These are two different things.
Also, there’s a whole bunch of nuance in that question. But the answer is: it will inevitably have an effect, and there are effects that have happened in the cosmere that you don’t recognize yet as being the effects of Splintering, and things like that.
Is Tarah, Kaladin’s flame, still currently in Urithiru? Because there’s a chapter where it kind of seems like she’s there.
I will answer that in Book Five, so I’m gonna RAFO you. That is at least my plan; one of the interludes should be from her viewpoint. That is my plan right now.
Did Hoid join the Worldsingers just to learn about Roshar’s stories? Or is there something more going on there?
Hoid never joined the Worldsingers. (Can one join a group that one created, is the question there.)
I have a sort of delicate question. If a bendalloy Ferring filled an unsealed mind and then gave it to someone else who tapped it, which one would go to the bathroom?
I don’t think this is working the way you think it’s working. The Ferring who is creating it is going to be the one who goes to the bathroom.
Would Kelsier be able to Return to the Physical Realm in the same way that Vasher did?
No. Mmmm… which time? Let me parse this question. Could a Shard with a great deal of Investiture take his Cognitive Shadow and staple it to a body, or indeed recreate (which is usually what happens) an entirely new body for him? Yes, that could happen. It would need, really, the will of a Shard and the desire to do so, but that could happen.
He couldn’t do it himself, though; because you could also have been asking: “return to the Physical Realm,” pop through; ‘cause Vasher popped through a perpendicualrity to get onto Roshar, which is another way he returned to the Physical Realm. I didn’t think that’s what you were asking, but sometimes, once in a while, you’re asking multiple things at once to be tricksy.
With all the bad things that we’ve seen the Ghostbloods do so far (like imprisoning Lift) is Kelsier no longer a good or mostly-good person?
Kelsier would say he’s a good person.
I would say: Kelsier’s a complicated individual whose moral compass does not align to my same moral compass. But he never was. He would say that he hasn’t changed; I would say that he has changed slightly over the centuries.
Are the glyphs on Scadrial which happen to look like bands, spikes, and beads a breadcrumb from the Lord Ruler in case his plans failed?
No, they are more that we decided (if you go look at the old ones) that modern people were interpreting them differently. This is not an active thing done by the Lord Ruler. Isaac can contradict me on this, because he designed them. But my understanding that it’s a natural outgrowth of people said “that looks like a spike” and so they started doing it more spike-like. And it just kind of became a thing for them as they were standardizing, and as typography started to exist, and things like that. Not necessarily meant to be a clue from the Lord Ruler.
Is there, or has there ever been, a Dawnshard hidden in a book?
I will RAFO that.
As an avid chicken watcher in my real life, I really enjoy the inclusion of Aviar in the Cosmere. And I was curious if in upcoming series, will we see the inclusion of more worldhoppers utilizing Aviar for trans-Investiture purposes?
Yes, you will. The thing about the Aviar is: the secret of what’s going on there is known by very, very few people, and there is certainly some work going on in that regard. Basically, people offworld trying to figure out what is going on with Aviar and how they work, because they are not what people expect them to be because of the way that the Investiture is being Invested, shall we say. But you should see that being relevant to future era Cosmere.
Kelsier was very clear in Secret History that his ties to the Physical Realm had been severed. Are we then to assume that the current Thaidakar/Lord of Scars is him teamed up with Spook? Or have they used their knowledge of Hemalurgy to find different human hosts? What’s going on there?
Excellent question. This is partially a RAFO. But you should assume that things have happened to allow for what’s going on. There are answers coming very soon. I’m going to warn you: not a lot of answers. But some answers are coming very soon. Maybe very, very soon.
Dawnshards. More of an Intent, or like a Command?
More of a Command.
And are they tied to the four groupings of sixteen?
That is a RAFO.
The four groupings of the sixteen. Could it also be related to the groupings of metals?
It could be related to that, but I won’t guarantee that it is.
Can a Shard hold on to the Cognitive Shadow of a person for later use?
Yes, that can indeed happen.
Without it being fully Invested?
You don’t have to fully Invest it, no. They would have to do some Investing shenanigans, but what you’re asking is quite possible, very possible.
So, for instance, let me give you a corner case. You might be asking: could Endowment send somebody back later than immediately after they have passed away? The answer would be “yes.”
I’m gonna tell you, I have no immediate plans to do that, but it is possible within the framework of the cosmere.
If Wayne, The Lopen, and Vasher were all in the same room, who would Vasher punch first?
Lopen. No filter. The difference between Wayne and Lopen is: Wayne can read a room. Lopen’s not so good at that.
If people started viewing their worlds as doughnut-shaped, would the Cognitive Realm change as well?
Yes, the Cognitive Realm would shape to that if the general group on the planet all were viewing anything, but particularly something like that. It would influence the how the Cognitive Realm manifests.
As technology develops and people start seeing the world as spheres, will that change…?
It will have an effect.
Have we been introduced to any chromium ferrings?
RAFO.
Would Nightblood consider Investiture to be evil?
No, Nightblood would not.
Is Whimsy the most dangerous Shard? Is he essentially, like, a Shard cat?
Whimsy is the most dangerous Shard to your sense of decorum and self-worth.
Gereh, the Feruchemist in Rhythm of War, did his Aviar grant him physical abilities?
No, that Aviar has mind abilities.
We've seen Stormlight act like a wave in Rhythm of War. Does it also have particle-like properties like real light, and if so will we get to see an experiment that proves that?
Yes, it does act like a particle too. No, I don't have plans to show an experiment like that.
Over the course of Rhythm of War, we see Cohesion applied in three different ways as applied by different Tones, and I can see internal/external and pushing/pulling contradictions in those. Is that a pattern that will be accurate for all of the Surges?
Yes, but a loose pattern. Accurate under the loosest definition of the word. You will find connections there, as you are looking for them, and most of them will be intentional. But it will be hard to fit every Surge into exactly that framework.
Would a highly invested person or object resist a soul stamp?
Yes, but soul stamps have a lot to do with volition. If the person was willing, they would be able to overcome that resistance to an extent.
Is it possible for a sentient bit of Investiture to pick up a Shard? Like a spren or Nightblood?
It would be possible yes, well, for a spren or a seon for example, it would. Nightblood could theoretically but it would be difficult for various reasons.
Right, because he has no hands.
*graciously chuckles at my dumb joke*
Would they have to be embodied to be able to actually use it effectively, or would they have the same limitations as Kelsier did when he was a cognitive shadow ?
They would have the same limitations yes, but there are ways around that.
Right, like Ishar is working on.
Right.
You have mentioned before that people should read one of the non-Mistborn stories in Arcanum Unbounded prior to The Lost Metal. Can you tell us which?
If I tell you, it will spoil a character who doesn't reveal themselves immediately in the Lost Metal. So I've been careful not to say.
I remember that you said that we will have like tops two Kickstarters a year, one for books, one for products. This will cover like the product one.
Yeah. Yeah. Plan is for next year for there just to be one and then the year after for there to be two. But the goal is tops two. Like this year we technically had three because there was the White Sand preorder campaign and we feel like that could get out of hand very quickly. Everybody who works with us might want to do a Kickstarter now because they've been so successful so we're kinda making this promise to make sure that we keep ourselves in line as well and I feel very good about having done that.
So if the product for 2024 is like maybe the RPG would the book be the art book for the story?
The book is more likely to be the Hoid Storybook Collection. So The Dog and the Dragon, Wandersail, and The Girl Who Looked Up done as picture books slash kinda coffee table books. That's more likely. The art book is a challenge because you know there's just so much that goes into that sort of thing—Isaac would have to be so deeply involved and it's whether he can find the time or not because he wants to be writing stories in his free time. We'll see, I do think we'll eventually get like an art book and an encyclopedia out but I'm a little more excited by the Hoid storybook personally.
And fully illustrated—they are going to look gorgeous.
Yeah. I really would like people to have like—my goal on those is like The Dog and the Dragon to be like a traditional children's book, Wandersail to be more like a giant illustrated coffee table book right—more targeted a little bit older, and The Girl Who Looked Up to be something in between.
And it's interesting that you mentioned the RPG because I remember like many years ago we started reading the RPG from [Crafty Games] and some things that were inside—because when you are doing an RPG you are reading it to explain like the lore and things about everything that's going on and the magic system and blah blah—and we didn't know if, for example, the metals that were included in there that were not yet on the book were canonical, and now I think that most of them are going to be canonical as well.
Yeah when we were working on the Crafty game there were certain liberties we needed to take, and some of them I knew we were gonna use and some of them I knew we weren't going to. And this is just the freedom they asked for to make their game. You can't take everything as canon unfortunately in the Mistborn game, but theoretically there's a lot in there that will be.
The other thing is, because we now have the Kickstarter and you have been working so hard within the last year with all the canonical designs for the characters and everything, and it's really exciting and pleasing to see Shallan turning into life and Kaladin and Szeth and everybody. What is the thing that—besides the statue the statue from Kaladin and Szeth but—what is the thing that you would like to see, what is the thing that will make you happy to see next as a project if not the minis, or what are you expecting?
Yeah. After the minis I would say that I am really excited to start work on an RPG—a pen and paper RPG. I really like the Mistborn one, but I have a lot more experience now and I think I know better how to mechanically come up with something like this and how to make sure all the artwork works and things like that so doing a pen and paper RPG I'm pretty excited for that idea. That would be the product I'm most excited for. But there are a few things in the Year of Sanderson that I can't talk about now that I designed that I'm also really excited about.
For the next year, when we were thinking about The Lost Metal one of the things that we were hoping is that—the same way that we had like a new tiny place which is New Seran on the map—we were hoping that maybe now we will get a bigger map? So we don't know yet, but hopefully.
Yes! The plan is a bigger map. Isaac has shown me a bigger map. I'm like 99% sure he put it in the book. So you should be getting—it's not a full world map—but you should be getting a map that includes the southern continent in its entirety. That should help as you are exploring Scadrial more and more.
Yeah! I wonder <like you said> like we were wondering regarding this new map is there any place where we will be able to find mummies on it?
*laughs* You know, Isaac's hard at work on his book. He hasn't let me read it yet, he's not quite finished. But I believe he might have an easter egg—it's really up to him—of where that might be. Close-lipped on what these mummies may be, and what's going on there.
Well well, let's see what the new book brings. And the other thing is because now we are closing this era and we will go into Scadrial—well in the future years we will go into Scadrial in year 3 [Era 3] it's going to be more technological, and since you said now we will have kind of a full map or more complete map of Scadrial, can we hope to see like the whole Scadrial in year 3 [Era 3] because they will have more—
Yes. Yeah we should be able to get the entire world map by then for you.
For the announcement that the Brotherwise <team> and you also shared, it's supposed we will have this RPG in 2024?
Well, we will likely have a Kickstarter for it in 2024, that's the plan. It's gonna take us that much time—uh, another two years—before we have a product. Until we know we have something that we can sell, does that make sense? We're gonna take that time to make sure that we are confident in it, that we have it done. But we probably won't be shipping in 2024 be my guess. It's possible we will be, but my guess would be we run a Kickstarter in the fall of 2024 for the RPG to arrive sometime after that.
I'm not gonna give you any 10's [announcement significance on a scale of 1-10] at the convention as I understand right now. So don't expect movie announcements, it would be my guess. There's still enough stuff moving behind the scenes. I had hoped so, but I don't think it's gonna happen there.
Have you figured out how old you think you're gonna be when you finish the Cosmere?
My goal is by age 72.
We know that finer gemstones like the King's Drop can hold Stormlight longer and encases other things that I won't say because of spoilers. Is that because of the craftsmanship, connecting their Identity in the Cognitive Realm?
Excellent question. "You can hold Stormlight in gemstones, and the more perfect a gemstone the more Stormlight it'll hold. Is the craftsmanship required to create it part of the reason why?" And no, it's actually the crystalline structure. Fewer flaws in the crystalline structure means fewer places for the Stormlight to wiggle out.
Do gemstones exist naturally on Roshar? Or are they all gemhearts?
Yes, but you gotta dig through lots of layers of cremstone to get to them, so most of the time you're getting them from gemhearts.
As of last week, I am officially the new Vice President of Narrative at Dragonsteel Entertainment, which is Brandon Sanderson's company. Brandon is one of the biggest and most successful fantasy authors in the world, with a vast universe of interconnected worlds and series called the Cosmere; I will be helping to guide the Cosmere, coordinate tie-in projects, write short stories, and co-write novels. This is, in part, a response to our collaboration on DARK ONE, and my first project as VP will be a large revision of that book.
Guess who I am going to be working for? Brandon!
Couple of years ago, he wrote a book called Apocalypse Guard that didn't work. And he brought it to me and said, "Hey, do you want to collaborate on this book, and maybe you can help me fix it?" And so I did another draft, and we looked at it and said, "Yeah, this still doesn't work." But we very much enjoyed the process of writing together.
And so he gave me Dark One. And he said, "Here, this is an outline that I have; do you want to collaborate on another book?" And so I wrote that one. And this one did work. It worked very well. And we both really loved the experience, again, of working together, of cowriting books, doing all this stuff.
Meanwhile, on my side, the whole Brandon Sanderson thing has gotten kind of big. And I was talking to my team, and I'm like, "I need help with the narrative side of this. I need another brain." We're going to do Dark One, but the goal will eventually be to have Dan just kind of help me work on the Cosmere, and things like this. I need another writing brain. And I need somebody who can write stories that I can't, was another thing. I had been thinking for a while; I'm like, "I need another me." I need help to manage the whole thing. Not just the books, but the entire series. And I'm like, "Well, Dan is the best writer I know. Maybe I should ask Dan."
I came to him, I'm like, "Do you wanna come on full-time as the vice president of narrative at my company?" So Dan is coming on on Monday as the vice president of narrative at Dragonsteel.
That is gonna entail writing a bunch of books; there'll be a bunch of cowritten Dan and Brandon Cosmere books. We're gonna start with some non-Cosmere stuff, 'cause we gotta get Dark One.
The book itself, we still are in the process of revising that. But as early as January, the prequel will be available in audio. We wrote a thing called Dark One: Forgotten. Which is audio native, specifically because we wanted to do it in the style of a true crime podcast. Imagine if, halfway through Serial, they discovered that there was a supernatural serial killer murdering people. That's what Dark One: Forgotten is. It's six episodes, hour-long mockumentary podcast thing. It's really cool; I turned in the final revisions this morning.
I will say, to mollify any fears that might be out there, my own career is not disappearing. I am still gonna be writing my own stuff. There's still Dan Wells alone stuff; there's still gonna be Brandon writing his own stuff. But there's gonna be a lot of overlap with the two of us.
If you put an emotional Allomancer, say a Rioter, on Roshar and have them riot a crowd to increase the number of fearspren, would the fearspren be at the feet of the Rioter or the crowd?
The crowd.
Is there anything more to learn about why Helaran was on the battlefield that day when Kaladin killed him?
Yes, but you already know the basics of that story...
Like it was definitely him on the battlefield, he was with the Skybreakers, his target was Amaram...
He nods, and says the 'more information' is more about the Davar family in general.
I had asked whether it was that Helaran was looking for Radiants, I had suspected maybe he would have struck at Amaram again if he was determined to kill him? Maybe he thought Amaram was a Radiant and taking the Shardblade disproved that?
No, the Skybreakers knew about the Sons of Honor, they had a good opportunity to strike at the organization and they took it.
Will the Stormlight RPG use the same mechanic system as the Mistborn Adventure Game?
These are two separate companies; they are unlikely to share mechanics. Is what I would say. But these are things that we want to hear. One of our biggest questions is: do we come up with our own system entirely? Or do we use one of the very popular game systems that are in existence already? Because there are ways to do both of those things. Would you, as a playerbase, prefer one that isn't compatible with d20 or something like that? Or would you prefer something that is? That's useful and relevant for us to hear.
One of the very first things that I said when I was talking to Isaac and Johnny [with Brotherwise Games] about this is: fans really want a pen-and-paper Stormlight RPG. We have, with the wonderful people at Crafty Games, a Mistborn RPG; but we don't have a Stormlight one. And so I said to Johnny, "Can you guys help us make one?"
Absolutely. Totally a dream project for us. With an RPG project, we've been in discussions with some big names and also some great new voices in the RPG space, so we are assembling a killer team of TTRPG writers and editors and, of course, illustrators. (The art aspect of this is huge.) But this is a huge project, so this is something that's gonna roll out over time. We're gonna be fairly quiet about it in the near future as we're working on that team, but we will absolutely be getting to a point where we go to the community for feedback and ask what you're looking for in this. That's gonna be a huge part of this.
We know nothing about it yet other than "we are going to do one." But we are going to do one.
At this point, again, we're not gonna be able to answer too many questions about that. But we're already gonna start listening for what you want. So if a Reddit thread goes up talking about "hey, what do you hope to see in this," then we will be reading that.
So let us know what it is that you guys want. Again, we're in the pre-concepting stages. We haven't even sat down and talked about what I like in RPGs and things like that. We will definitely get there, but that's our next project with Brotherwise, probably.
That's our next big one; I think the next one that would be crowdfunded.
Do you plan on doing more lines of minis for your other series? Namely, Mistborn?
If something is successful, we are more likely to do it in the future. I'll borrow an answer from Mark Rosewater whenever he gets asked about things with Magic: The Gathering. We have no immediate plans. This comes down to the "do fewer things better." And we want to make sure that we're doing a really good job with the thing we're doing right now [Stormlight miniatures]. And then, if things are successful and people want them, we will move forward.
In the future, we intend to continue kickstarting Stormlight leatherbounds—but not other leatherbounds we do. That gives us roughly one of these every three years. The other two years between, I’d like to do other things. The Hoid storybook collection (which is picture books and/or coffee-table-style books of The Dog and the Dragon, The Wandersail, and The Girl Who Looked Up) is another one I’d really like to do. On the products side, we’d like to do a Stormlight pen and paper RPG and a Stormlight board game, two of the most requested items you have all been asking us to do.