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Are Shard Vessels able to have children?
Yes they are.
Even Sazed, with his body being a eunuch?
Yes, though technically all of Scadrial are the children of Preservation and Ruin.
I've heard about a Shard that just wants to survive, hiding off-- it doesn't have a planet it doesn't--
Right.
--out there in space, trying to survive. Does it have the intent of like Fear, or something like that?
The intent is related but only tangentially. Mostly it just knows what's going on and is smart enough to get out of there.
Two questions about the mechanics--well, actually, a bunch of questions--would a Shard's magic change if they moved to a different world?
That's a RAFO.
How is it that Nightblood, who is merely a near-sentient awakened object, was able to read minds, something a Shard like Ruin was unable to do?
It requires bonding (with the person whose mind is to be read) to read minds.
Does each Shard have a favorite, or special, number or color?
I would say that there are inclinations but it's not, perhaps, as specific as you are thinking.
So do each Shard's perpendicularity-- is that, like are they their own individual color or is that sort of--
There is a small thematic connection. This is not to be taken as one of the bigger deals in the cosmere, but there is a small thematic connection.
Did Ambition ever have a Shardworld of their own?
[Repeats question] Meaning, did Ambition ever settle on a planet? I’ll RAFO that too.
When Honor speaks of his inability to see the future, he likens it to a shattering window. Is this related to the fact that in the not-too-distant future, he himself will be splintered? Or is it more a matter of Intent; e.g., Cultivation (and Preservation?) is geared toward future development, whereas Honor is geared toward current behavior.
This is not related to his impending Splintering, it is a matter of differing Intents.
Chapter Sixty-Three - Part One
Ruin and Preservation Were Human
Ruin was human once. Vin implies it, and I'll just come out and say it. Ruin and Preservation were both people, unconnected to the powers they eventually took upon themselves. I can't say any more on that at this point, however.
What was Aona and Skai's relationship (like e.g. Cultivation's vessel and Tanavast were lovers)?
RAFO!
What would happen to a spren if someone with a Nahel bond Ascended?
It's a good question, and it is also a RAFO.
The way Painter transforms nightmares into other things is reminiscent of the way spren are affected by perception - only much more extreme. Is perception (and the way the world is set up) the only important factor here, or is Painter using Investiture too somehow?
What's going on here is not Painter using Investiture really. It's the fact that the nightmares have less control over them from another source. Spren have an oversight from Honor, Cultivation, and Odium, and this is kind of leaving them less at the whims of other people's perception. The nightmares do not have that. I'm not going to say they don't have it at all, but Painter is not using Investiture, but the nightmares are specifically more susceptible to what's going on. So for instance, a good way to answer this is if he went and did this for a spren he would not have the same level of power.
A Couple of Small Notes
Yes, Demoux survives, as I promised to Micah. Also, Ruin—like Preservation—dropped a body when he died. This is important, but I can't give you a decent explanation of why that is at the moment.
I wanted to know why in The Stormlight Archive and Mistborn, all the gods were named after human traits?
So this is... all the books are connected. So a long time ago, the premise is, a being... god named Adonalsium was split into 16 pieces, and so the various "aspects" of god, and those aspects are now the gods of all of these things. So there were two in the Elantris world, there's one in the Warbreaker world. Mostly Mistborn and Stormlight is where you'll find out about them.
Preservation, and... I remember Hatred [Odium] in Stormlight.
Yep, Preservation and Ruin. And on Sel, it was Dominion and Devotion, or Love and Conquest were the two.
So all of them are connected?
Yep.
I noticed during Oathbringer, is there a symbolism between the color red? Because I noticed that red is mentioned many times. Is it tied directly to the Thrill?
When I am using red specifically for spren and eye color, I'm doing it intentionally. It means something. I'm not gonna tell you what it means yet.
Azure's cloth was red, and Adolin picked up a red glass sphere.
Some of that is going to be coincidence. But the color of the thing that is going to Scadrial is not coincidence.
Dalinar's visions are the memories of Honor, correct?
Yes. Yes, they are things specifically created by Honor...
Does that mean that the Recreance happened before Honor's death... since Dalinar sees it?
Yes. But Honor's death, like Preservation's death, is a protracted event.
Can Odium change written word on Roshar like Ruin could on Scadrial?
*apprehensive* This is not really a thing that Odium does. Um, yea.
Can Sazed "will" himself to any Shardworld if he so desires?
Yes, he has the capacity for it. However, will he? Don't know. If he did there would be a lot of ramifications for it...
One of the swears that they have is "Rust and Ruin." My thought is, maybe that could mean two different beings.
It could... It doesn't. Good question.
If you used Hemalurgy to steal Allomancy, Harmony gets some kind of insight into the person that was spiked? He can talk to them? And with enough spikes hear their thoughts?
Mmhmm. Yes. With enough spikes, take them over.
So if you use a spike to say, steal Breath, would Endowment?
I'll RAFO that for now. Good question though, I haven't been asked that yet.
If you stole Breath, would Harmony still keep the same effect?
That's why I'm going to give a RAFO.
Chapter Seventy-Nine
The Mists Chose Someone
There's a lot more going on behind the scenes than even the author of these epigraphs knows. Reasons why Vin was chosen, and why the power of Preservation needed a new mind to control it.
The author is right in that Preservation did need someone to control its power, and it did seek for a host in which to invest itself. It began this search with what mind it had left about sixteen years before the return of the power to the Well of Ascension, just as it began a search for a new host before the return of the power the previous time.
Unfortunately, just as Ruin took control and manipulated Alendi, he took control and manipulated Vin.
Will Thinker+Grump appear again? Or is this a RAFO?
They will appear in the cosmere some day again.
With regards to the Dor, whereabouts is it located exactly, with regards to the Realms.
Oh, you're the first to ask this one. It is in the Cognitive Realm... I think you might be the first one to crack that one. So, that's something that I've been dancing around for a while, waiting 'til people started to figure that one out. Now, that's not where most of them are.
How does Harmony know about radio?
There are actually two answers to this. First, Harmony was given a grand understanding of the laws of the universe during his Ascension. Second, Preservation had some limited precognitive abilities. Either one of those can lead you to the answer.
Why does Preservation fueling Allomancy not weaken Preservation compared to Ruin?
Because the power, once used, returns to him--much as water, after passing over a turbine, continues on in its system.
So I'm wondering, how omniscient are the Vessels?
This is a difficult question to answer because they don't know everything, but they could theoretically. And so, the actual Vessel needs to apply the power and learn things. And they don't know the future exactly. Particularly, you'll notice some hints of this in Oathbringer. There are certain things that really foul with their ability to see the future. It's whenever we kind of get the equivalence of an atium shadow right? Reflection that reflects that someone sees the future, and then suddenly you end up with this kind of difficult chain to follow.
Can you tell me who might be the most all-knowing out of all of them?
I will say the older they are the more they generally know.
So probably not Harmony then?
Probably not Harmony.
Did Kelsier help in the search for [Hoid] that Galladon and Demoux were doing in the Purelakes?
Good question--
He's the only one that can call him something similar, like "Drifter" so -
Yeah, I'm going to RAFO that-- Not quite where-- I'll just RAFO it. I'll just RAFO it. Kelsier is not on Roshar, but obviously that's not what you're asking, which is what I thought you were.
He has an aura that fits in with--
Mmhmm!
The spike at the end of Shadows of Self, does that have anything to do with Endowment.
That is not from Endowment, I can go ahead and let you know that.
Chapter Eighty-One - Part Four
Vin's Sacrifice
Killing Elend and leaving Vin alive would have been, in my opinion, more tragic than what happened. As I establish in a little bit, there is an afterlife in this cosmology. Better for them both to die and to be together.
There were only two ways that Ruin could have died in this book. The first would be to have him give up his life as Preservation did. I don't think that was very likely.
The second way is the one I've been subtly pushing the reader toward from the very beginning of the novel. Ruin and Preservation are opposites. Equal, particularly while Ruin doesn't have access to the chunk of his power trapped in the atium. The only way, then, for him to be killed would be for Preservation to smash his power against that of Ruin and destroy both of them. It's a form of balance. Either you block and stop each other, warding each other away, or you overlap and destroy one another.
This was the role Preservation chose Vin to play all those years ago. As she surmises, he needed someone to do what he could not. He had been too corrupted by his power, and could not destroy Ruin. If Vin had held the power for millennia as Preservation had before her, then she too would have lost the ability to destroy Ruin.
It needed to be someone fresh to the power, still separate enough from it to be able to kill Ruin. Preservation knew that if he did not sacrifice himself and let someone else take up the power, then Ruin would eventually win and the world would end. Imprisoning Ruin was always only intended to be a delaying tactic.
The delay was so that the power could find a new person to bear it. Someone who could do what Preservation could not.
Chapter Fifty-Five
Elend Sees the Mist Spirit
Elend really does have a lot of faith in Vin, even if he doesn't worship her. He ascribes an almost supernatural power to her. And, I can kind of see why he would. In these books, Vin's almost less of a character and more a force. Like Ruin and Preservation, in a way.
Regardless, this chapter is about Elend giving up—then finding his hope again. I bring the mist spirit back here for a final appearance, but I wanted to be careful not to have it give too much information to Elend. Not because I don't want the information itself to get out, but because the mist spirit hasn't been a presence in this book, and so I haven't foreshadowed it enough. Therefore, if it simply showed up and gave a bunch of answers, I think that would feel cheap to the reader.
The mist spirit is, as the next epigraph explains, the remnants of Preservation's mind. I don't delve into it too much in this book, even the epigraphs, but Preservation's consciousness is indeed separate from his power. However, his consciousness itself has a limited power. And that is what he used to bind Ruin.
That did not weaken his power, which still protects the world. Instead, it cost him his mind, leaving behind only a faint shadow—like the mists' memory of Preservation, far removed from what he had once been.
That consciousness attached to Preservation—like the one attached to Ruin—is a part of Adonalsium, which will eventually be explained. Suffice it to say that in a pinch, Preservation could draw upon the power of his own mind and use it to imprison Ruin. This was why he was able to pull of the trick, as Ruin wasn't expecting it. He might have anticipated an attack using Preservation's power, but not his mind—not knowing what burning his own mind would do.
That is why Preservation's cage captured Ruin's own mind, but not his power.
Chapter Thirty-Eight
Preservation's Power
All right, so maybe I lied about there only being three magic systems in this book. It comes down to how you term the powers of Preservation and Ruin, who kind of blanket the entire system. There are a lot of things going on here, and—well, the truth is I don't want to mention all of them, for fear of spoiling future books. However, I'll give you a few rules to apply.
First, to these forces, energy and mass are the same thing. So, their power can take physical shape—as Preservation's did in the bead of metal Elend ate. Second, there is a bit of Preservation inside of all the people—and it's this that allows the people to perform Allomancy. It needs to be awakened and stirred to be of use, but when it is, a proper metal can draw forth more of Preservation's power. It's like the metal attunes the bit within the person, allowing it to act as a catalyst to grab more power.
Allomancy is not fueled by metal; it is fueled by Preservation. The metal is the means by which a person can access that fuel, however. If there were another way to access it, then the metal wouldn't be needed.
Preservation's touch on people differs. Some have more, some have less. This doesn't make them better or worse people—indeed, some most touched by Preservation have been among the worst people in the world. As Ruin later points out, there is a difference between being evil and being destructive.
Regardless, if a person can get more Preservation into them, they become better Allomancers. Hence Elend becoming a Mistborn. Like all people, he had the potential within him—it was just too small of a potential to be awakened through normal means. That little jolt of Preservation's body, however, expanded and awakened his Allomancy.
As a tidbit, that was a side effect of what that bead of metal did. It wasn't the main purpose of the bead, and if another Allomancer were to burn it, it would do something else.
Did Sazed get memories as fast as Taravangian when he Ascended?
Yes he did… but getting memories and getting these things and knowing what to do with them and stuff are different things. But yeah, I would say the experience was somewhat similar.
It looks like we are done with the Set's and Telsin's stories, so can you share a bit about how the organization started and/or how Telsin joined them?
The Set began, honestly, as a domino effect of things Kelsier was doing on-world. It is his fault. He wouldn't necessarily take responsibility for it. A group of people who knew that things were happening behind the scenes and through various machinations and things like this decided that there was power to be had, from what they didn't quite know was off-world yet, but that they knew there were basically ancient gods. This was a great opportunity for certain individuals and beings around the Cosmere, specific ones, to take over the reins on this. People who begin looking for ancient gods find them, it turns out, in the Cosmere, sometimes.
Telsin was involved from a young age and Wax's parents were not. Wax's uncle was. I don't think he actually recruited her, as I remember. It's been a while since I went through these things. He, being part of it, was part of how she found her way there, if that makes any sense. Telsin's always very ambitious, and always knew... Telsin can be seen as a bit of a model for the Set itself, in that she knew there was more out there that people weren't telling her, and she found it and then it consumed her.
People in the chat are saying that Telsin recruited Suit.
That's right, Telsin did recruit Suit. Yep, Telsin recruited Suit. She was looking for things, she found her way to it, yeah. So there we are. Edwarn, Suit is his title. Yeah, I knew there was something there, but it's been...
Like I said, view Telsin as kind of an example of how the Set itself came to be. And I have to talk around some things because I want to write Secret History sequels but I don't know if I'll be able to. And in them you should be able to see the origins of the Set. It is planned right now to be not... it's not like Kelsier founded it, but the ripple effects of things Kelsier was doing.
When Wax is talking to Harmony he mentions 'the radio' and other things. Are there already societies that have things like that and how is he getting that information. Is it like a Spiritual Realm..
He knows things from his Ascension. He gain an innate knowledge of the universe in interesting ways. In addition, Preservation had some minor innate progno... he could see the future a little bit, and so could Ruin in a little different way. Let's just say that there are a bunch of things mixing together that give Harmony some knowledge that most people wouldn't have.
But will we see some of societies soon or is that further in the future?
*RAFOes* You'll find out.
Let's say hypothetically we get Ruin, Preservation, and Endowment to create a planet. Would there be *more* magic systems due to Endowment's involvement (think permutations), or would this specifically not work at all?
It could work. There is the potential for more magic systems.
Is it fair to say that when one of those power sources become vacant a person, or something with--
Something can-- naturally will pick it up, yes.
We know it has been stated that adonalsium could have been shattered into 16 different intents. We also know there is a force out there opposing adanalsium. Did it shatter into those 16 intents because it believed that was the best way to defend against this said force?
RAFO.
Austre: Is also also- is that Endowment? You referenced him as male, but Endowment's female. So I'm dying to know.
No, Austre is not. So who do you think Austre is?
Since it's not Endowment I personally think it's a Returned from long ago.
That's a very good conclusion.
Vin Asks Ruin about Preservation
After this scene, perhaps you can see why I wanted so badly to spend some time with Vin and Ruin talking while she was imprisoned. I felt this was important enough that I was willing to stretch plausibility a tad to make it possible. (The spoiler in the chapter 54 annotation explains what I mean by that.)
The discussion of morality here is an important one, as I wanted Ruin and Preservation to represent forces, not moral poles. This is vital for various reasons in the underlying cosmology. If they represented poles, then that implied there could only be two like them. But, as they represent opposites, that leaves more room.
Preservation did betray Ruin. This brings us onto the shaky ground of the morality of lying to achieve a greater good. If as much were at stake as is here—the end of an entire world—then perhaps you'd betray someone too. (I love fantasy. Where else can you talk about the end of the world as a consequence of a betrayal and have it be literal?)
Ruin's consciousness—separate from his power—isn't a particularly nice being. But you can't much blame him, as there's very little that is left of the mind that once was. The force of Ruin has pretty well molded the mind to fit with the force's intent.
In Way of Kings, there was an interlude, you've got the three guys that are looking for Hoid. They're in that crazy town with the water. Who are the guys? And are we going to see them again?
So, one is Captain Demoux, from Mistborn. One is Baon, from White Sand. And one is Galladon, from Elantris.
Are we gonna see them again?
Yes, you will see them again. And if you watch really closely, you can pick out Galladon by, he speaks in Dula. So if you watch for the quote in Dula. But the other two, you wouldn't be able to pick out.
They are chasing a false lead, which is just very amusing to Hoid that they think he's over there.
Did Ati want to take up Ruin specifically?
RAFO!
What is your favorite original Shardholder?
My favorite original Shardholder?
I don't knoooowwww...
Are they all that bad of people?
No no, they're not bad-- they're not all bad people. Many of them are-- you know the trick is I'm gonna have to really write them, as their personalities. Because right now they're really just concepts, and I haven't written very many of them. And so... I'm very fond of Bavadin, but I can't say.
I really enjoy the systems of religion and the religious questions that you bring up and so I was wondering-- Well first whether in your worlds there is a relationship between the efficacy of religion and the efficacy of magic?
There is but the relationship is not a direct one-to-one parallel. In other words the beings that are worshiped have an influence over the magic. Whether they are actually God is disputed by various people. And there are people who worship things that are not the various beings the magic is-- Does that make sense?
With bits and pieces of the respective pieces of Harmony still laying about, is Harmony actually skewed in one way or another if slightly and does Sazed's personality circumvent this in any way ?
Personality can always circumvent the powers--it just gets harder and harder to hold out as centuries pass.
Double Eye of the Almighty, is that just symbolism or does Tanavast have weird pupils?
That is symbolism. But if you were to see Tanavast and you were on Roshar, he would manifest with weird pupils at that point.
Reflection of how people believe?
Yeah. But the actual Tanavast before, he did not have weird pupils.
<Could you tell me something about the Shard that is hiding>?
That is a pretty big spoiler. I can give you a RAFO card. Yes, the Shard that wants to hide, let's just say, they are quite intelligent in their decision to not get caught.
Can you tell us the intent of Bavadin's Shard?
The intent of Bavadin's Shard? No. But good question.
The other lake in Alendi's bumps?
A manifestation of Ruin's gathered consciousness, much like the dark mists in book two. The lake was still around in Vin's era, but had been moved under ground. (Note that the Well is a very similar manifestation. You've also seen one other manifestation like this....)
Such as...this?
The "lake" was barely ten feet deep—more like a pool. Its water was a crystalline blue, and Raoden could see no inlets or outlets.
If that's what you're hinting at...I never thought of the connection before! I just kept thinking of Aether of Night, and never thought of this pool at all.
Both are accurate, but the first is what I meant, as most people here don't have access to Aether.
I'm also thinking that the Dor in Elantris is another Shard of Adonalsium. Certainly in the Elantris world, where the Dor came from is rather ambiguous, which I expected it would be. Of course, if other Shards of Adonalsium do exist, the Dor could have come from that source.
I will RAFO from here on the other Shards of Adonalsium, as it would be better for me not to give spoilers. Please feel free to speculate. Readers have met four shards other than Ruin and Preservation.
Have we met these four by name, or just by influence? I can't think of a name that would go with the one that the Elantris lake is a manifestation of.
Hoid could be one? I know nothing his purpose other than that he shows up in lots of different books, sometimes begging and sometimes telling stories. Since most of these series happen on different planets (though two of them may happen on the same planet as each other), I'm assuming he has mad planet-hopping skills.
...Nightblood...
Ookla, I'm going to be tight lipped on this, as I don't want to give things away for future books. But I'll tell you this:
You've interacted with two directly. One is a tough call. You've never met the Shard itself, but you've seen its power. The other one you have not met directly, but have seen its influence.
I thought Nightblood was explained sufficiently for my tastes in Warbreaker, so I doubt that it is a Shard, but I've been plenty wrong before. Also, I don't know if Hoid could even be a Shard. Certainly he has mean planet-hopping skills, but I don't know what purpose a celestial storyteller would have in this universe. He doesn't really have the same kind of power as Ruin or Preservation did, so normally I would rule him out right off the bat. But it is possible that these Shards come in many shapes, not just in the near-deific quantity Ruin or Preservation had. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say Hoid is a Shard... but, then again, I don't have any ideas for what those four other Shards are.
Maybe Hoid is just a traveler trying to find remnants of Adonalsium and stories about them. He doesn't need to be a shard, I suppose.
This is slightly a tangent, but here is a relevant chunk from the Warbreaker Annotations. As this won't be posted for months, I'll put it here as a sneak preview.
This whole scene came about because I wanted an interesting way to delve into the history. Siri needed to hear it, and I felt that many readers would want to know it. However, that threatened to put me into the realm of the dreaded info dump.
And so I brought in the big guns. This cameo is so obvious (or, at least, someday it will be) that I almost didn’t use the name Hoid for the character, as I felt it would be too obvious. The first draft had him using one of his other favorite pseudonyms. However, in the end, I decided that too many people would be confused (or, at least, even more confused) if I didn’t use the same name. So here it is. And if you have no idea what I’m talking about. . .well, let’s just say that there’s a lot more to this random appearance than you might think.
Brandon, I believe in one of Sazed's epigraphs, he actually called it "Adonasium" rather than what you are referring to here, which is "Adonalsium". I'm thinking that's just a typo, right?
I don't suppose you could tell us which book series of yours will tell us more about Adonalsium, would you? You know, just so us theorizers on the forum know when to properly theorize about these things...
Well, I guess this means that the proofreaders did not add the "L" when I marked the error on the manuscript.(sigh). Yes, the correct spelling is Adonalsium. I will try to get this fixed for the paperback, but I've been trying to get that blasted steel/iron error in the back of book one fixed for two years now. . .
If it helps, Sazed would probably under-pronounce the "L" as that letter, like in Tindwyl's name, is said very softly in Terris.
As for your other question, you will have to wait and see. Now, you could search my old books for clues, but I would caution against this. While there are hints in these, they are not yet canon. Just as I changed how things were presented in the Mistborn books during editing, I would have fixed a lot in these books during revision. Beyond that, reading them would give big spoilers for books yet to be released. White Sand, Dragonsteel, and Way of Kings in particular are going to be published some day for almost certain. (Though in very different forms). Aether of Nightshould be safe, as should Final Empire prime and Mistborn prime, though of those three, only Aether is worth reading, and then only barely. (It is still pretty bad).
