Would giving a Lifeless a pair of Kandra Blessings make it more intelligent? Similarly, could Blessings make a Parshman more parshendi-like?
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Would giving a Lifeless a pair of Kandra Blessings make it more intelligent? Similarly, could Blessings make a Parshman more parshendi-like?
Let's say we have a hypothetical situation with Miles Hundredlives. In this scenario, he is wearing a gold metalmind filled to the brim with stored healing power. He is then spiked with a cadmium spike and loses his gold allomancy.
Now, if I recall from various WoBs, he would be able to heal using the gold metalmind and regain his gold allomancy. I could be misremembering and he cannot heal it, but I believe he would be able to since it is part of his Identity.
However, one question I have never seen the answer to is this: what happens to the ability in the spike? Is the allomantic ability still contained in the spike, leading to a duplicate? Or is the spike's ability lost? Or maybe I have this whole thing wrong and Miles could never have regained the ability in the first place.
If the ability duplicates (which I doubt), that could lead to some crazy things. Also, this applies to any Twinborn with gold Feruchemy, I just thought Miles was a good example I guess :)
I'd like to see the exact WoB's here to make sure I'm being consistent, as I don't know that I confirmed you could regain lost powers--only that you could heal from hemalurgic soul damage. Most likely, what you'd end up with is a person who has been healed and can remove the spike from their body without damage, and without needing it to hold their soul together--but who has lost the ability in the spike.
Regardless, though, what you want here (the mass production of spikes charged and even blanked) is possible with the right levels of investiture. It's an energy, like things in our world. The difficulty is finding out how to 1) get enough investiture and 2) key it to the right people and/or magic.
Hope that's a little more clear.
That said, a lot of times people just ask me if something is possible--and a lot of things are possible, but just very difficult. And with the right boost of investiture, in the right circumstances, it WOULD be possible to regrow lost (to spikes) powers. It's just highly unlikely.
I'm not sure if the questions people are asking me are ones I've qualified, or not, in these instances. Also, this is all something I'm playing with still behind the scenes as we enter the modern age of Mistborn.
As requested, here are the WoBs I believe are related. They might be obsolete, however. And I assume things will get changed a lot before Era 4, but hey, it's fun to ask anyways :)
This one states that as long as Miles still has his Identity, he would be able to use his Feruchemical metalminds after being spiked and would be able to heal.
This one says that Miles would be able to heal his soul using Feruchemical healing and regain his gold Allomancy (assuming he survives the spiking). I think this is the most essential one!
This one is only somewhat related - implies that the Feruchemical and Allomantic powers are spiritually part of him.
Also tangentially related - damage to the soul from Hemalurgy can be healed (Although this might just be a Hoid thing). I guess the question could be expanded to include non-Feruchemical healing as a way to repair the soul after being spiked.
Well, I don't think any of those are specifically inaccurate. I just didn't quite understand what people were trying to get out of me. A lot of times, I don't know quite what people are trying to get out of me. I can see now they're trying to figure out.
I see now, and I appreciate you putting this all together for me so I can see what the fans are trying to figure out. So the answer is a cautious yes. The problem here is that he'd need to compound a TON of healing first--but yes, it would work. You could theoretically turn someone like Miles into an invested spike factory.
If he didn't have enough healing stored, though, he'd end up with a healed soul but a gap (like a scar on his soul) where his spiked-out abilities were. That could theoretically be healed with application of more investiture, depending on things like how he views himself, and if you could get the right type of investiture.
What does aluminum do in Feruchemy? What does malatium do in Hemalurgy?
RAFO. We'll be releasing a chart eventually that includes all of the powers. I don't want to speak until I have everything nailed down exactly the way I want.
What happens when you burn a Hemalurgic spike?
Burning a Hemalurgic spike would have the effect of splicing your spiritual DNA to that of the person's that is in the spike, which would have some very strange consequences.
Can you both Feruchemically charge and Hemalurgically invest in the same piece of metal?
What would happen if you burned the Feruchemically charged and Hemalurgically invested metal?
What happens when you break a Hemalurgic spike or metalmind? What happens to that power?
Hemalurgic power can be split among multiple spikes and reforged, but remember that the longer a spike is outside of a person, the more the power is going to decay. Things like splitting it will decay it even further. Metalminds can also be broken and still be accessed
Is there a limit to the size of a Hemalurgic spike?
Technically no. To be functional yes, but technically no.
Could Nightblood theoretically be turned into a Hemalurgic spike?
The problem with that is that Nightblood is already invested, so it depends on your version of ' Hemalurgic spikes'. Piercing someone's body with Invested metal can have weird effects all through the Cosmere, but ripping off a piece of a person's soul using an un-Invested spike to Invest it and create one is different... we're talking about two different things, right. So there's the.... so what is a Hemalurgic spike? For instance if you've got a spike that's Invested and you stick it into a Kandra on Scadrial it will still work as an Invested Hemalurgic spike. Making a new Invested spike by ripping off a person's soul, that's a different process and a little more difficult to accomplish and requires some specialized knowledge.
The Blessings are still a little confusing, I fear. Originally I designed a Blessing as a single bit of metal in each kandra's shoulder. Eventually, however, I realized that I needed to change this for magic system cohesion reasons. I changed it to be two bits of metal, one in each shoulder. So, each kandra has one Blessing, but that Blessing consists of two bits of metal.
Each kandra only gets one Blessing from among the different types. There will be more on this in the book later, of course.
Hemalurgy is mentioned as something that has "broad implications" but that's of Ruin, right? Or now it is of Harmony.
Yes, but don't take the "of Ruin" and "of Preservation" too strongly, but yes.
But, I mean, somebody couldn't just walk along with a metal spike on, say, Nalthis. Stab someone and have the power, right?
If they knew where to stab them, yes they could.
Anywhere in the cosmere?
You can stab someone and get their power?
Hemalurgy has been built in such a way that it rips off pieces of the soul. If you can rip off the right piece of the soul and attach it to somebody else, it will change your Identity and rewrite-- It can rewrite anything attached to your soul. Identity, Connection, it can rewrite Investiture, all of this stuff it can potentially do.
and do the things you stab people were they always metal or does that depend on the planet?
No, that's metal, that's-- Well yes, you could do something like that. That is totally possible. But the metal-- Yeah. Anyway.
With the other Shards you kind of have to be near that Shard to get that — there's no Allomancy
there's no Allomancy did it, yes. To have that part of your soul. But, for instance, Allomancy would work on other planets. The only one that's going to have trouble on other planets, right now, are the ones on Sel because of the way the magics are built.
How Hemalurgy Works
The epigraphs to this chapter and the ones around it talk about Hemalurgy. I'm feeling that by now, you've figured out what it does. You use a spike on an Allomancer or a Feruchemist, killing them and charging that spike with power. Then you drive that spike into someone else, and they gain that same power. (Though they get a little bit less than the person who died. In some cases, if the spike sits outside of a body for a long time, it can lose a lot of its potency.)
Though this mechanism doesn't add any new powers to the world, I really like the way it works. With Allomancy and Feruchemy, we already have a lot of different magic powers to keep track of. I wanted something from Hemalurgy that wouldn't simply add to the list of abilities, but would instead fit with the feel and the nature of the magic. Something to balance Allomancy, in which a lot of power can be obtained without much direct cost to the Allomancer.
Hence, Hemalurgy. In a way, it has the most potency of all the powers, for with it you can make anyone an Allomancer or a Feruchemist. You can steal single powers from the other two arts, then mix them in a person as you wish. It adds a different element to the world—a way to obtain more power, a way for a common man to become like Vin or Kelsier, but at a terrible price. It works perfectly with who I wanted Ruin to be and what I wanted the conflict of these books to become. What is the cost of power?
Cause and effect, action and reaction.
Would hemalurgy on roshar require spikes to be made of gemstones?
If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen?
We actually worked this out. *laughter*
Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts?
So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know--
What would a Hemalurgic spike granting atium do for an Allomancer already able to burn atium? Does it function similarly to bronze, granting enhanced atium-ing? Along this line of thought, would enhancing electrum burning via spike be of any advantage?
A spike of something you have would enhance your ability, giving your more strength. With atium, more strength makes for a minimal edge--the length you can push out the atium shadows. However, there's a certain breaking point where you kind of crack the whole system, peer straight into the [Spiritual Realm], and kind of have a "It's full of stars" moment.
Electrum could reach this same moment, potentially, though there's more interference to fight through. Extra strength in electrum isn't going to be terribly useful up to that point.
Is that what happened when atium was burned with duralumin?
The Mechanism of Hemalurgy
The Blessings and the workings of Hemalurgy gave me some trouble as I designed the second and third books of this series. On one hand, I liked the way Hemalurgy worked by stealing powers from Allomancers or Feruchemists and giving them to other people. However, if I was going to limit myself to sixteen metals and be able to steal both Allomancy and Feruchemy, that meant I needed a mechanism to determine which power got stolen. If, for instance, you drove a pewter spike into a person who was both an Allomancer and a Feruchemist, then how would that spike know which power to suck out and grant to the one who would gain it?
As I was toying with how this would work, I realized that I needed to work the kandra and the koloss into this as well. Only, it was ridiculous to assume that the Lord Ruler would kill Allomancers to make koloss. There weren't enough Allomancers, for one thing—plus it would be foolish to lose the power of an Allomancer to gain an inferior tool in a koloss.
So that meant koloss had to be made out of regular people, not Allomancers or Feruchemists. Suddenly I had another set of abilities that Hemalurgy had to be able to steal—the basic pieces of Preservation inside the souls of all men.
Hence the decision that where the spike was placed in the receiver, and how it was used to kill a person, influenced how the power was shaped. Now a pewter spike could steal any of a number of powers, based on how it was used. And regular people could be used instead of Allomancers—however, when that happened, the receiver was twisted much more than if an Allomantically charged spike or a Feruchemically charged spike was used.
My rationale for this is that if the spike is pulling out the pure power of Preservation—part of the power of all creation—and twisting it, it would change the body of the recipient greatly. Twisting them through use of the twisted power.
Atium is the best metal to use for Hemalurgy. Does *burning* atium help you figure out where to put the spikes?
Anything that gets you a glimpse of the Spiritual Realm could help with placing spikes.
Would flaring iron and steel also help?
No, not without additional help.
Atium spikes, they can hold a lot. Can they hold multiple different abilities, can they hold Surgebinding and--
Usually you've gotta use a spike for one thing at a time.
If you knew what you were doing could you turn a dog into koloss dog using hemalurgy?
Allomancy is of Preservation, correct?
What are Feruchemy and Hemalurgy of?
Hemalurgy is definitely of Ruin.
Is it of pure Ruin?
Yes. That's a very Ruin thing. And Feruchemy is more of a blend. Though… there is more philosophy to that and human construct—like the Allomantic table—than I think I’ve made clear before.
4 Hemalurgic spikes steal Allomancy, 4 steal Feruchemy, and 4 more steal Human traits. Do the other four a) steal a trait every normal human has, b) steal something only some humans have, or c) steal something no human has?
If something is heavily Invested, it's harder for a Shardblade to go through it, right?
Kind of. It depends on the kind of Investiture and things that are going on. But yes. If you want to block a Shardblade... Like a metalmind would be a good thing to use to fight a Shardblade.
A person with a lot of Breath, like the God-King, would you be able to chop them with a Shardblade or no?
It's going to get very tricky on that, so I'll RAFO that for now. Let's just say that there are things. For instance, a Shardblade excising someone who's been Hemalurgically spiked is a theoretical possibility.
What's the difference between a spike prepared for a Koloss and a spike prepared for a Mistwraith or Kandra? What side effects might occur from... [?]... Koloss spikes?
It's the pieces of the soul that are being ripped off and the amount of the soul that's being ripped off. That's a big part of it. What side effects would there be? You would probably not get something as intelligent.
What's the difference in how you prepare those spikes?
The Koloss spikes, you've seen how their done. The Kandra spikes were prepared by the Lord Ruler. He gave them to them, and so we don't know what he did, at least in canon.
That means that we kind of screwed up the role playing.
You can totally do- I imagine all the role playing happening in a slightly different alternate universe, where there are slight variations and differences.
But yeah, there are no- Kandra spikes are prepared and given by the Lord Ruler, they didn't even know how to make them themselves. I mean they had an inkling of what went on, but they didn't know.
Can someone be sacrificed for both Hemalurgy and the magics of Dakhor simultaneously?
So this is going to require the soul being ripped apart, so it depends on what pieces of the soul are left and how easily you can capture them. That's a theoretical possible-- possibility... Know that most of the horrors of Dakhor are twisting a soul not stealing a soul.
Does the positioning of a Hemalurgic spike matter on the donor, the recipient, or both?
You've said that Inquisitors could have children. Would those children have a better chance at being Allomancers compared to if they had the kids before they were Inquisitors?
Yes, but there also could be...complications.
Could someone who is spiked, not on Scadrial, still talk to the Shards?
Yes. Little asterisk, but yes.
Would a person who had enough spikes to have all the Allomantic powers would be considered a Mistborn?
They probably would be called a Mistborn.
I wondered if an Inquisitor had children, if they would inherit stronger Inquisitor abilities, or if they would just inherit the lesser lines from being a Seeker, for example?
Excellent question. I don't think I've ever been asked this before... The way Hemalurgy works, if you're not aware, you are taking someone else's soul, and you are basically nailing it to your soul... That won't affect the children. So you will have the weaker lines.
They have tried that. Unfortunately.
Can you make a Hemalurgical spike out of harmonium and what would it do?
Yes, but RAFO. So half an answer and half a not-answer.
So in the trilogy, we see that when someone has a Hemalurgic spike implanted in them, they can hear Ruin talking to them, both as a vision and in their head. However, we learn in the Hero of Ages that Ruin cannot hear a person's thoughts no matter how much under Ruin's influence they are.
In Alloy of Law, we see that Wax (and other Pathians) uses an earring to "pray" to Harmony, and we see that Harmony can hear his thoughts and respond.
So I guess this leads to three questions: How does Harmony hear the thoughts of Wax, when it's explicitly pointed put that Ruin cannot?
Are the earrings that the Pathians use Hemalurgically charged, as otherwise they would be of no use to Ruin, and therefore Harmony?
Or did Harmony completely change how that aspect of Hemalugy works?
How this all works dates back to the original design of the magic system.
I wanted Ruin and Preservation to be complementary opposites, like many things in the Mistborn world. Allomancy, for example, has Pushes and Pulls were are less "negate one another" opposites, but instead two sides to the same proverbial coin.
Ruin is invasive. The power is more "Yell" than "Listen." The philosopher would probably have some interesting things to say about the masculine symbolism of Hemalurgy and its spikes.
Ruin can insert thoughts. That power, however, can't HEAR the reactions. It's about invasion.
Preservation, however, is the opposite. Preservation listens, Preservation protects. (Perhaps to a fault--if there were no Ruin, there would be no change to the world, and life could not exist.) Because of this, Preservation can hear what is inside people's minds. It cannot, however, INSERT thoughts. (This is important to the plot of Hero of Ages.)
Harmony is both, the two complementary opposites combined. And so, he inserts thoughts with Ruin and still uses Hemalurgy. He can also listen.
Yes, Wax's earring is Invested. (Or, in other terms, it's a Hemalurgic spike.)
Doesn't that imply it was shoved through someone's heart at one point (ala Steel Inquisitor creation process)?
Yes, the metal would have to have been part of a spike that at one point was used to kill someone and rip off a piece of their soul.
Could Lift's food ability be taken by Hemalurgic spike?
Could Hemalurgy be performed anywhere in the Cosmere
So Hemalurgy is unique because not only can the power of Ruin be accessed anywhere (not just on Scadrial), but also by anyone (not just someone who's invested)?
It is weird that way.
Is there a maximum number of spikes a person can have? Would having more spikes eventually cause issues, be it mental or physical limitations?
Also do the benefits from spikes have some form of diminishing returns, or could some one have like, 200 bronze spikes and be able to sense a person burning metal through copper from 50 miles away?
1) Yes, it would cause big issues.
2) #1 interferes greatly with what you would like to do here, but there are other ways of magnifying the powers to the extent you postulate.
Does being the donor of a Hemalurgic spike have any implications for your afterlife? Or how about the recipient?
That is actually going to depend on-- Okay. Yes it has implications for the afterlife. Yes.
Okay so are there a bunch of Scadrian souls wandering the afterlife with holes in their personalities or memory or identity? Or some with extra parts tacked on?
So it has implications, but they are not exactly ones that you are assuming. So in the cosmere there is "dead" and "mostly dead". Okay? And this has been shown several times so once someone dies there is a period before they transition. Sazed talks about this in Mistborn 3. And so most of the implications are for before transition. Does that make sense? Post-transition you are going to have to ask the philosophers and the theologians who are the ones that talk about that. So there is an afterlife and an after-afterlife. Not as many implications for after-afterlife. Middle? Yes. Okay?
I was wondering if a bond to a spren, a Nahel bond, may be taken with a Hemalurgic spike.
This is possible but it's gonna-- Since the spren has free will it's going to be-- Yeah it's going to have weird ramifications but it is a possible thing.
Hemalurgic spikes lose power unless they are in a person’s body (or immersed in blood), does that body need to be living, or would a corpse suffice? If so, at what point in the decomposition process would the spikes cease to be protected? When they are no longer encased in flesh, before, after?
I haven't put a specific number or date on it, but I'd say as long as the blood itself would be viable if moved to a living body, it will work.
So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?
Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you.
So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.
So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back.
So would it also affect your probability of becoming an Elantrian?
Yeah it would affect your ability to become anything else, yes.
Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.
It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.
So it's easier for Investiture to get in. Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in?
It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.
Okay, so Investiture doesn't care but spren do.
Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.
So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.
I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.
Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you.
Yeah that's cool. I just want to know more about gold too. Gold Allomancy too. Because Miles was doing some funky stuff.
Miles was doing some funky stuff.
Have your ever thought about how your magic systems would affect a pregnant woman?
I have given thought to it.
...Which system would you say would be safest as a pregnant woman?
I think Stormlight-- being Invested with Stormlight would be very safe. You would probably be better off than not. Hemalurgy would be very bad.
Any clues on where we see Hemalurgy elsewhere in the cosmere?
No, we'll RAFO that for now.
If you were to Hemalurgically give a fallen Elantrian Feruchemic gold, would they be able to store Health?
A fallen Elantrian store Health-- And you gave them a Hemalurgic spike-- That’s a good question, I would think-- *long pause* You know I think they would not be able to, that’s an excellent question.
Would it suddenly store up the moment they were restored?
No, it would not suddenly recover everything. Unless you wanted to channel-- You could do some goofy things but it would kinda ruin their connection to the Dor. But I don’t think it would suddenly-- Y’know. You might be able to do something where you steal it away from them, that could possibly happen. If they were spiked while they were full Elantrian you could probably get more out of them than your average person.
Could you steal any trait Hemalurgically that can be stored Feruchemically?
Yes, you could steal any trait that can be stored.
I got my ears pierced recently and it got me thinking about Vin's earring. It's a Hemalurgic spike, right?
And the Inquisitors don't have to worry about infection or anything with their eye spikes. So when Vin got her ear pierced as a baby, she also didn't have to worry about infection?
That is an awesome gig!
...It comes with some terrible side effects, but it is a pretty nice gig.
Has a Hemalurgic Feruchemist ever used a Hemalurgic spike to tap power into it? Have they ever done that yet?
So a Hemalurgic spike is already Invested, so it's going to resist sticking anything else in it, particularly a magic like that.
So if there's a pewter spike then a Feruchemist couldn't store strength in it?
Yeah. It would be difficult.
Has Hemalurgy been used on another planet besides Scadrial?
Yes it has. Brandon did not want to give out any more details about who was getting spiked or if the spiking was successful.
I was wondering if it is possible to steal Surgebinding with a Hemalurgic spike?
Yes, but if you're stealing it from a Radiant, you're going to be stealing the bond, which the spren has an influence over. So, it's maybe not going to work as well as you might hope.
I notice that the two most complicated Investiture systems that we know of, those being Hemalurgy and Forging, are both the Investitures of Shards whose names have a generally negative connotation. Is there any correlation?
I would say that is not an intentional correlation.
That is just a coincidence?