Can being an Allomantic Savant be transferred through Hemalurgy?
A Savant cannot be, good question. No one's asked me that before.
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Can being an Allomantic Savant be transferred through Hemalurgy?
A Savant cannot be, good question. No one's asked me that before.
I recently picked up the Mistborn Adventure game and am loving it. I made a character who is a blind Mistborn because hey, I thought it would make for some interesting possibilities. As I understand Allomancy, he can hear/sense well enough to get around with Tin, plus even though he's blind he can still "see" steel lines (like the inquisitors), and I assume Atium would work the same way- that is, he could still "see" Atium shadows. Please correct me if I'm wrong.
No, you're right. That works. He'd have to burn metals a LOT though. It might warp him a little. :)
Could a Seeker savant tell the difference between regular Allomancy and Compounding?
It is possible!
Do all Soulcasters risk turning into the element or is it only those using the device?
All Soulcasters have an affinity but the ones using the device are locked down much more than the Soulcasters who are Knights Radiant.
So they are protected from being turned into--
Oh no they-- I wouldn't say protected... *clarificaiton* Protected is the wrong term but that event, the savanthood and how it affects them and things like that is much less pronounced if you are a [Knight].
Or is that counteracted by the healing as well?
Healing doesn't have to do with it because-- in cosmere terms there's nothing wrong with your body, your spirit is actually drifting, and so it's not hurting you physically by what's happening with the magics. So it's not the healing but if you have an active bond with a spren it takes a little different path. Let's just say, in simple terms--
You are not losing body parts to smoke.
Yes, you are not using body parts to smoke.
What timeframe does it happen for the normal Soulcasters then?
For normal Soulcasters? It takes-- I mean, you've seen it happening in the books. We are talking [about] a process of years even decades, depending on the person. It happens to some--
Depending on how often they Soulcast?
It depends on how often they Soulcast, and it depends on the person.
What happens if you become an atium savant?
I've RAFO'd that in the past, so I'll RAFO it now
I know savantism isn't transferable but if you were-- If you were to be spiked, would you be able to call it savantism?
As far as Hemalurgy, when you give that-- when it's done to somebody, would that create a new resonance?
It's possible that it could. Though I'm gonna say, most of the time, no... Lots of things are possible, but I'll give you a "mostly no" on that one.
What about savantism? Is that possible with Hemalurgy?
Yes, it is.
Warning, Evgeni. I'm really considering doing a backpedal on savants. The more i think about them, the less I'm not liking how my current course has them being treated in upcoming books. I think it deviates too far from my original vision.
Hey, I wouldn't normally contact you directly like this, but given that you thought it important enough to reach out and let me know you might change how savants work, I figured you probably wouldn't be too upset by this message. I replied to your Facebook comment, asking if you could clarify a little bit which aspects of savantism you are thinking of keeping and/or cutting. I don't need an essay on the topic (though you know I'd love one!), just some details on what we can consider canon for theories, and what we should be careful around.
So here's the problem. The more I dig into savants in the later outlines, the more I feel that I'm in a dangerous area--in that I'm disobeying their original intention. (Which is that using the power so much that it permeates your soul can be dangerous, a kind of uncontrolled version of a spren bond.)
And so, I don't want to let myself just start making people savants right and left. It needs to be a specific thing. Wax is the troubling one, as I have him burning so much steel that he's well on his way, but isn't showing any side effects. If I'm going to give him savant-like abilities, he needs savant-like consequences.
That's the danger, just falling back on savanthood to do some of the things I want, so often that it undermines the actual point and purpose of them in the cosmere lore.
So if I backpedal, it will be to contain this and point myself the right way, sharply curtailing my desire to make people savants without their savanthood being an intrinsic part of their story and conflict in life. (Like it was for Spook, and is for Soulcasting savants on Roshar.)
Feel free to share this.
Okay, so - if you do decide to go this route, I see the story implications (larger focus on consequences, less easy to get to the point where a character can be considered a savant). What I am not sure about is the potential for a mechanical change. Would a backpedal on your side cause a conflict with information you've shared with us, in or out of your books? Are you saying that it's possible that Wax won't be considered a savant (if you can't squeeze a good ramifications plot for him that doesn't contradict the apparent lack of consequences so far, for example)?
I haven't decided on anything yet. It's mostly consequences for the future--just a kind of, "be aware I'm not 100% pleased with how Wax turned out, re: savanthood and Allomantic resonance."
The idea of resonance is that two powers, combined, meld kind of into one single power. This is a manifestation of the way Shards combine. Wax was intended as a savant of the two melded powers. But without consequences in his plot, I'm not confident that I'll continue in the same vein for future books.
I want to know if there is a toxic level for Stormlight? If you're in the storm, can you get to the point where you have too much?
No, it doesn't quite work that way. Good question, though.
You said there was one person, I guess it was the Soulcasters, who were starting to change because of that?
That's more the magic changing their soul over time. It's not necessarily a function of the storms.
In what ways is becoming an Allomantic savant similar to, say, bodybuilding or exercising?
There are some parallels there, you could draw that parallel, definitely.
So Allomantic Savants. So I was curious-- That system-- When that happens, is it purely physiological, or is there something else happening in terms of--
Uhh, it's physiological in a cosmere sense, but that can involve your Cognitive and Spiritual aspects.
I guess the question there is, are there other similar processes to savantism with other--
Yeah, yeah you've seen it. So, Soulcasters.
Where their skin turns--
Where they're slowly being-- their spirit is slowly being merged and infused with Investiture that is having Physical ramifications. It's the same thing.
So I have a question about Savants. Could you only get there by flaring, or if you burn it for a long period of time or like duralumin--
Yeah, you can get there other ways.
So, in the scene where Kelsier has all the metal around him, and he's Pushing and Pulling on [parts of the metal that are] not center of mass, is that something more along the lines of savantism, or is it just Rule of Cool?
No no, that I was pushing toward... I wouldn't call Kelsier a savant, but I would say that there were certainly steps toward that, and it's something I actually wanted people who were really skilled with the magic to be able to do.
So it's not Rule of Cool.
I would not call that one Rule of Cool, I would say that I want that to actually be part of the magic, that I wanted there to be some level, particularly in Pushing and Pulling, of skill that lets you deviate from the normal. And I've tried to show in other places that people who are really skilled can do some different things like that, particularly with Pushing and Pulling, both on emotions and on metals. So no, not Rule of Cool there, I do occasionally do Rule of Cool stuff, but I wouldn't call that one.
Marasi is an Allomancer
One of my big goals in these post-epic Mistborn books is to give a chance for more limited-power people (Mistings and their Feruchemical cousins, Ferrings) a chance to shine. In the previous trilogy, the focus really was on the Mistborn. Vin and Kelsier fit the epic fantasy mindset I wanted, powerful in an epic sort of way, broadly capable with abilities in a lot of areas.
For these books, I wanted to show people who had one or two powers, instead of sixteen, and show how specialization can achieve some incredible results. Because of that, I intentionally held back in the first trilogy in letting Vin do a few things. (Note how much better Zane was with minute steelpushes and ironpulls than she was.) Vin was incredibly skilled, but because she had so many powers to work with, she didn't home in as much on any one of them. Things like Wax's steel bubble are tricks I wanted to save for people like Wax. (He's what we’d call in the Mistborn world a steel savant, so capable with his metal—and having burned it so long, for so many years—that he's got an instinctive ability with it that lets him be very precise.)
And so we come to Marasi, who has the power opposite—but paired with—Wayne's ability. Both she and Wayne have powers I wanted to delve into. Indeed, I kind of promised that the last metals would get highlighted in these newer books. Matching that, I've given Miles the same power the Lord Ruler used to heal himself from so many incredible wounds. I wanted to explore more of what this skill was capable of when not overshadowed by so many other powers and abilities.
So if you jumped off a high place and you were a steel Feruchemist, could you store the speed of you falling?
No, because-- I'm going to say you need to be moving under your own-- because otherwise it's all relative, right? If you're falling, it's no different than if you're traveling on the planet or things like that.
So it's related more to muscle contractions.
*hesitantly* Yes, kind of. Feruchemy bends all sorts of weird things, ever since I started doing the weight one. So, yes.
The thing about Feruchemy is it feels like you could be like a savant short of it, but it would be much more minor than something like a savant for-- It would be more things like what you could get for exercise and stuff like that.
Yeah. Yeah, that's possible.
When Kelsier is teaching Vin about the basic eight Allomantic Metals, he talks about not flaring metals, especially tin and pewter, as it does strange things to people. Does this imply that there were other savants before Spook?
His answer was that there were other savants before Spook.
We see the concept of savantism in First Era of Mistborn books. What does that look like on other systems of Investiture, more specifically Roshar?
So on Roshar, I'm going to RAFO this one for now. It's a little harder to make happen on Roshar for various reasons, but I'll give you a card. I'll just RAFO it.
I’m on my 3rd or fourth reread of the Stormlight Archive this year, and I noticed the runaway comment that certain animals are farmed in order to produce meat via using their gemhearts for Soulcasting. We know as of Oathbringer that Soulcaster’s have a tendency to become what they Soulcast when they become savants. This lead me to question, how does that work for meat Soulcasters? Do they just become more meaty than a regular human? If so what does that even look like? Just some random questions that I haven’t seen discussed anywhere else.
RAFO for now, more for the fact that I'm low on time. But I'll talk about this some day.
Would Hoid's spirit web seem more similar to that of a savant or a regular human?
Oh, neither one, but it would be weirder than a savant.
You've mentioned in the past aluminum savants being able to somewhat heal their spiritweb, healing them of the cracks, sort of healing them of Allomancy. Could a chromium savant do this to other people, kind of like in the Avatar [The Last Airbender] finale where he seals bending?
I will say RAFO, but I will say you're theorizing along correct directions.
Have we seen the resonances of either Wax or Wayne?
Yes, well, Wax is really good at sculpting bullets and things away from him.
Yeah and things like this. This is playing with the fact that he is-- Let's just say that the abilities make this happen, and I’ll let you theorize on why, but it's just an enhancement to what he can do.
I might be wrong, but I thought you said it was because he was becoming a steel savant.
A savant, yeah, definitely, but this is what this is coming from.
But being a savant has to do with being really good with one power--
Being a savant has to do with using Investiture a lot, and it's starting to permeate your soul. Like we've ta--
So he's more a savant with both of--
He's used them a lot, and they are changing his soul, and so the powers are morphing and changing. Just in slight, little ways. You're not gonna see a whole bunch. But you can imagine these two separate powers are kind of becoming one to him.
Yeah I can see that. And Wayne?
So Wayne's is not as obvious. I'll go ahead and RAFO that right now.
Can you become a Nightblood savant?
Um... No, I don't think that would work. Just the way that things are working, probably not. Whether Nightblood is savant or not... But you probably could not become a savant of Nightblood.
So my quick question: Can you use Identity (I love the speed bubbles!) to anchor speed bubbles to yourself?
Uh, this is possible. That's less a matter of Identity. What’s gonna happen there, like, the more someone uses the powers, the more familiar and intermingled with their soul the powers become, and they are able to accomplish things that others can't. This would be like a Mistborn learning to hover a coin, right, which they can do, but most think you can't. That's the sort of level we're going with.
So a savant could?
A savant could totally do that. The problem is, things moving in and out of a speed bubble, there's a transference of energy. This is how we keep speed bubbles from irradiating people when light moves through them, right, red shift. And so there's a transfer of energy directly from the Spiritual Realm, which means that moving with a speed bubble, you're gonna run into that, and it's gonna be, it's gonna cause all kinds of problems, but it would be possible.
Was the Lord Ruler using Feruchemy + Allomancy to Soothe all of the people around him? Or was he, as I like to think, flaring for so long that he became a Soother Savant?
He lived long enough and used his metals enough (particularly Soothing) to become nearly a savant in every area, if not a full savant.
Can you compound like a, can you compund metalminds to the point where you become like a savant?
A savant happens because persistent use of the power has an effect on your soul, warping it. Compounding is a very different thing, so while you could draw some very powerful effects, I would not call them the same thing, even if they are imitating one another at certain points.
There is quantitative difference in Allomancy (e.g. Elend is stronger than Vin), there is skill difference (e.g. Breeze is better than Vin with zinc), but is there a qualitative difference too?
That’s the scale of what we call savant. Wax can do more with less. It’s not just skill, the burning for long, using for so long, will actually adapt your soul to the power.
So can bronze savants pierce copperclouds?
Yes, a bronze savant should be able to pierce copperclouds. It depends on the strengths of the coppercloud and the strength of the savant, but yes.
So Elend could theoretically learn to pierce copperclouds?
Weaker ones, yeah, totally. He can learn how to do it by brute force.
With a cadmium or bendalloy savant, would they be able to impact the amount of time that they can compress or expand?
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So they could fit-- Theoretically they could make-- fit more time into the same amount of metal.
Oh, that's what you're asking. Yeee-- *pauses* So, yes, technically, because... Yes, but mostly what that's going to do is going to influence your strength and how much you can multiply--
The size of the bubble?
The size of the bubble and the amount of time, like when you flare, you are pressing more time into it and a savant is gonna get really good at that. They're gonna get good at changing the bubble and the shape of the bubble, they're gonna get good at some of the other things involving the bubble. It does technically, as you become a savant, does mean you're able to squeeze a little bit more out of your metal, because that's just how it works, but that's not the main effect.
What's the effects of being an atium savant?
Hehehe. No one has found out.
We know that Soulcaster savants exist and Radiants are protected by the Nahel bond but not immune to becoming one. Can all Surges cause becoming a savant?
Yes, they could.
Can other fabrials, such as the one that takes away pain and the one that offers Regrowth, cause some sort of savanthood?
Those, I'll explain the distinction in Rhythm of War. I get deep into the fabrial science. There is a big distinction between those fabrials and Soulcasters that will become manifest. Let's say that what happens to Soulcasters is more likely to cause savanthood and the side effects.
Hero of Ages, Harmony in the epigraphs says that brass and copper Allomancers can become savants and never even notice. I know that generally savantism is supposed to have really extreme effects, so how does that work that they do not notice?
So, most savanthoods have extreme effects, some of them it's just not as noticeable. It can warp your soul without you really even paying that much attention to it. I kind of have a push and pull on how debilitating it is in some ways versus others. In this case, those are two that you can become that it would not be very debilitating in your life.
What effects would that have for that?
I'll RAFO that.
I continued to ask about the Lord Ruler and his Allomantic strength.
There's an upper bound to the amount of power you can get from being a savant. Brandon said that, obviously, the Lord Ruler wasn't using duralumin and Elend could only get that powerful in Soothing using duralumin. He implied that there was a way to Compound to enhance Allomancy.
Would it be harder for Jasnah to Soulcast a Knight Radiant?
Would it be harder for her to Soulcast a Mistborn?
Yes, Investiture resists Investiture. It's harder for her to even Soulcast a person than a rock, right?
Is a Mistborn Invested?
The Mistborn, while they're burning the metal. They are not specifically Invested when they are not burning. When the Investiture becomes active, then yes. Before, no.
So Kelsier, he stayed around longer, not because he was Invested, but because he had the potential to use Investiture?
Over time using the magic will Invest you, on Scadrial. Most of the power is not coming from, on Roshar the power isn't coming from the person either [he cut himself off, so I assume this is how it works on Scadrial even though he didn't finish his thought] so I'm going to have to back up on that one and say, yes, the Mistborn are as Invested as a Knight Radiant, because in both cases the majority, bulk, of the power is coming from somewhere else, but there is the Spiritweb. Investing the wrong term, but you have all these connections in the Spiritual Realm, so yanking you away from them, or rewriting them is harder.
Would they be harder with more Stormlight or metals burning?
Yes, yes. That would increase the difficulty ratio. For instance, wearing Shardplate is gonna be a great barrier, right, and things like that so yeah. The problem is like, Invested is the wrong term for that, their Spiritweb is connected in different ways.
What benefit does an aluminum savant get? Yes, I know this would normally never happen because aluminum burns itself up. Suppose a mad scientist with a willing Mistborn test subject shoved a feeding tube down the Mistborn's throat to pump in a continuous stream of aluminum, replenishing it steadily so there's always a new unburned supply. Add another tube to pump out excess water if necessary. What would he discover? Alternatively, what would Sazed with his Shard-granted knowledge know?
Ha, that IS a little silly of a method. However, on the extreme end of aluminum, I have in the notes the possibility of cleansing the spirit of unwanted effects of other Investitures. You'd get really good at this, and maybe even be able to cleanse the body of other impurities.
Would a savant look different in the spiritual realm than a regular human?
Is there such a thing as a Feruchemical savant?
I did not write Feruchemical savants into the original outline. Whether or not I will do them- it’s highly unlikely because it’s not there and Mistborn is getting trickier and trickier in that regard. But I didn’t write them in, so… that’s a “probably not”.
If a hermit were to take a whole lot of cadmium and go off and live by himself, how far within a lifetime, reasonably, could he get into the future by essentially time-capsuling himself? Assuming they live to be 70 or 75.
They could get pretty far.
What would the savantism do to them?
The savantism would probably allow them to get further… It’s completely reasonable… you can treat this like relativistic travel.
What other magic systems - because it seems unique from what we have seen - what other magic systems have that same, kind of, "If you use it a lot it gets better?"
So, imagine this way-- You're making a metaphor-- It is a little bit more like wedging open cracks in the soul by letting the flow come through, and the investiture comes in.
So it seems that in Allomancy, it seems to maybe enhance those cracks--
It can open the cracks more.
Are there other magic systems like that?
Will we see those anytime soon?
Maybe. Anytime soon? Let me RAFO that for you.
If a Misting burned the correct alloy of Lerasium and their metal, would that be akin to them becoming a Savant?
We know that Soulcasters who Soulcast long enough become savants, and that manifests physically. Is what happens to people during the Shaod physically related to savantism?
"Related?" You gotta watch out for terms like that in detailed Cosmere questions because of course they're "related." Are they "related" in a significant way that you should draw parallels between? Probably not. They're related in that being highly Invested does things to you, so yes. But savanthood is a different style of your Spiritual DNA being rewritten. I mean, that is what's happening, when you're becoming Elantrian, so... how about I give a "halfway in between significant and insignificant?" Moderately significant relationship between these two things, but not a direct relationship.
Sorry, that terminology is kind of weird for me to parse with "Is it related".
[Us discussing savantism off to the side and Brandon overhears us]
What am I going to change?
Something about savantism and how it works.
Yeah, savantism I’m tweaking. It’s not going to mean anything to most people, but if you are studying savantism, watch how it evolves in future books. There is an interlude from a savant viewpoint in Oathbringer, though.
A Radiant savant?
A soulcasting savant.