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Is there a difference between Shadesmar and the Cognitive Realm?
Shadesmar is a word for the Cognitive Realm specifically touching [Roshar]. It's like San Diego is a word for a place in America. It's a local word.
In the cosmere, if everyone on a planet believes unicorns exist, would some kind of unicorn shadow appear in the Cognitive Realm as a result?
If yes, could you create an actual, physical unicorn out of it?
No, it's not going to quite work this way. What's going to happen if everyone believes unicorns exist, but they don't, there's various things that could happen. You might end up with some Investiture taking on this persona and becoming this, but it's not like you can create it, but over time you might end up with the equivalent of a spren. Then it's not going to be just a physical unicorn running around. It's gonna have more spren aspects, and my guess would be that over time these things feed each other. Right? Like people see one, and then they describe, "This is what it looked like," and that changes the public perception to better match. And then over thousands of years what you end up with is, "Hey there's things in the forest over there that are a type of mysterious creature that are transparent and look a little like a horse with a horn, but maybe fly," or things like this. You would end up with something in the middle, between the two of them.
Things wouldn't naturally pop up on Shadesmar unless there's free Investiture in that same sort of way.
Is there a magic system that best allows people to worldhop between worlds?
Yes, but it isn't needed. Some do help more with understanding how to traverse the Cognitive Realm.
How is the Cognitive Realm of Nalthis?
Yes, Nalthis. I'm gonna RAFO that. You will see it before too much longer, I hope.
Does emotional Allomancy work on animals?
Emotional Allomancy requires a certain level of sapience.
So dolphins, oragutans, mistwraiths and parrots might work?
I was intentionally vague. :)
Huh, so that would mean that divine Breath (or just regular Breath?) works in a completely different underlying mechanism than emotional Allomancy in providing that calming effect for animals and children. I had previously thought it was just an overlap in abilities.
There is an overlap. But it involves playing with Spiritwebs and/or the Cognitive Realm.
Do the Spiritual and Physical Realms have names, like Shadesmar is the Cognitive Realm?
Kind of, but not really. Shadesmar is just a rough translation of "Cognitive Realm" in the language of whoever first found out about it. Other people, planets, and worlds wouldn't call it Shadesmar - they would call it whatever their words for "Cognitive Realm" are. This applies to the Physical and Spiritual as well.
What does antiseptic look like in the Cognitive and would it frighten away any rotspren or grinders there?
Mmm… no it would look like a bead unfortunately. You could manifest it, like how you see Kelsier doing with stuff but really… no. Maybe if you got some antiseptic in [into the Cognitive Realm], the rotspren might recognize it but just the soul of it, no.
It seems like a movie adaptation would have just constant spren everywhere?
That's why I made it so that not every use of the emotion causes them-so it wouldn't get too crazy even when I'm writing them. And what's happening is the spren exist on the Cognitive plane, on Shadesmar, so they have to be attracted, they have to be nearby enough to flock to you, so it depends on how common the spren is.
There's been enough speculation that an Elantrian world hopper appears in Way of Kings and that an Elantrian world hopper wrote the Ars Arcanum in Alloy of Law to make it likely that by the time of both books, at least some Elantrians can world hop. So my question is, at the time of Way of Kings, does Sel have the most cosmere-awareness out of any of your Shardworlds (including ones we have not seen yet), or is there another Shardworld that's more aware of the greater cosmere at this time?
Sel is very cosmere aware at this point, but getting to and through Shadesmar (that's not the local term, by the way) is very difficult on Sel. That stunted them for a long while. They're still fairly far ahead.
The two Shards on Sel were kind of pressed into the Cognitive Realm. Is that what makes travel there so difficult?
Yes. Because you usually travel through the Cognitive Realm. WELL that's not exactly what you want to be doing on Sel.
I understand that although Shadesmar is a Rosharan term, Brandon sometimes uses it generically to refer to the Cognitive Realm. But I would not have expected Khriss to do the same (AU, Drominad system). Is that a mistake or deliberate?
As far as I know, it is not a Rosharan term.
My understanding came from several WoB, such as https://wob.coppermind.net/events/221-words-of-radiance-omaha-signing/#e7199 … and https://wob.coppermind.net/events/225-words-of-radiance-san-diego-signing/#e5814 … . While obviously not canon, can you clarify with Brandon?
Eh, well the first quote actually answers the question. Whatever word people use throughout the cosmere, Brandon translates it as Shadesmar in the books. I still think the word is widely used though.
I think that in the first quote when he says "these books" he is referring to Stormlight. Hence the reference to Wit, whose words are translated to Rosharan and Cognitive Realm is thus translated to Shadesmar. Have you found Shadesmar anywhere else in the cosmere?
Well, clearly Khriss calls it that too. :)
Exactly how turbulent is the Cognitive Realm around Sel? Khriss seems to think it's rather difficult [to travel] but how difficult would it be for Hoid to get through?
How difficult would it be to get through to Sel, how difficult would it be for Hoid. I would say straining his resources and capacity. It is difficult for him. So take that as you will. But it is worth his effort and he has done it numerous times.
Say something is brought into the Cognitive Realm, and then the actual object is brought in through a portal…
That’s a RAFO, good question.
Is the reason why it is hard to get to Shadesmar on Sel because Devotion and Dominion being Splintered?
That is part of it (a little).
Has to do with the name of that expanse.
If I took a fabrial to Shadesmar, would it work and what would happen to the spren trapped in it?
RAFO.
So, if someone went to Shadesmar on Scadrial would the whole ground-water inversion, is that a Cosmere wide thing?
That you will have to read and find out about. I will say that there are places in Shadesmar that are different and there are places that are the same as what you see on Roshar.
The Expanse of Broken Sky, is that Sel?
RAFO
Nightblood. He just showed up at the end of The Stormlight Archive--
Yes.
--the last one. So, is there a place that's a connection between all of the universes?
Yes, there is.
And it's been reached in The Stormlight Archive?
Okay, so I'm guessing you don't know about all of this but there are characters from Elantris that are in Mistborn--
Yes. Like Hoid.
--and all of this stuff. I would say one of the things is that Roshar is a little bit easier to get to than some of the others, but it's not that it has been breached there so much as it's a little bit easier to get to.
Yes, I'm assuming it has something to do with the Cognitive Realm but then objects going through the Cognitive Realm is kind of tripping me.
Hehe… *long pause* There are places in the Cognitive Realm that are somewhat nexus-like, like you're talking about. Yes there are places like that. ...So Roshar might actually be the easiest place to get to in the cosmere, like from planet to planet. Sel is probably the hardest, right now. For a long time Taldain was very hard, but not anymore.
If everyone in the Cosmere begins to understand that there is space travel, does that change the distance needed to travel around in Shadesmar considering it's made up of the beliefs of the people?
What's going to happen is it is going to make the travel distances longer. However, people cannot conceive the immensity of space. The amount different it's going to make it is not going to be so vast that it's insurmountable. It's not going to come one fractional piece of what the actual distance is.
So, Sel: Investiture has been pushed into the Cognitive Realm. Threnody: Has it seen something similar?
It has not seen... Okay. Yes, something similar. It would count. Something similar, yes.
If that's the case, what would happen if you were to push Investiture into the Physical Realm?
It generally manifests either as a solid, liquid, or gas
I thought about that. I was like, "We've seen that," but it seemed like a concentrated form. What if you did for like a whole Shard?
That would probably have disastrous effects.
That's why I was thinking for Threnody, but if it hasn't been that, then something else happened.
It hasn't been that. Something else happened.
If you went to Shadesmar on Scadrial would there be spren there?
"Spren" is a term for things on Roshar. So yes, there are a few, but they're from Roshar originally.
What happened to Rand? He's not dead?
So Robert Jordan wrote everything from Rand stumbling out of Shayol Ghul until the ending, with the exception of the Perrin scenes, which I added to that epilogue. Harriet says--his wife--says he sat laughing to himself as he wrote the scene with the pipe, but he did not tell her what it means.
Pipe?
The pipe where he-- he lit the pipe just by thinking about it.
That's also something-- he's using the Tel'aran'rhiod power to light it in the real world?
I do not know. Now, I have my theories. I think that because Rand touched the Pattern directly, when he was doing what he was doing, that he now has influence over the Pattern.
So he can change and manipulate things? But he's-
That's what I think, but Robert Jordan didn't say, and he did write those scenes himself before he passed away. So, I wrote the actual Last Battle-
All of it? That was so epic.
Yes. So he took over-- where he left was right when Rand stumbles out. The Last Battle chunk before that was me. He wrote Mat in the Tower of Ghenjei... He wrote most of Egwene in The Gathering Storm, and then little snippets of Egwene all the way through. Perrin was almost one hundred percent me; he didn't leave much on Perrin. With Rand, he wrote little chunks here and there...
So I do not know. Now, I can tell you that there in the notes that when the balefire streams, when they crossed, intertwined [Rand's] soul with Moridin's soul. And one thing that his assistant said is that the [soul] that wanted to live found the body that was going to live, and the [soul] that wanted to die found the body that was dying. And that's what happened.
They swapped bodies because he had this thing-- Why didn't he go in and say "hey everybody?" ...He didn't want to be with his family and friends anymore?
I think he probably came back-- He just needed a break. I'm pretty sure that he eventually let them know, but he just needed a little time. So, but I don't know for sure.
I thought it was super cool, going in, the chase between Slayer and Perrin.
I had a lot of fun with that scene.
...Also, you told me last time I saw you, that Tel'aran'rhiod is basically-- Is that kind of where you got the idea of the parallel universe in the other books?
Yeah, Shadesmar. Shadesmar you can tie directly back to my love of Tel'aran'rhiod. It's kind of mixed with that in my love of some ancient Greek philosophy things that are not that important, but yeah.
Does Stormlight go into the Cognitive Realm during a highstorm?
RAFO.
How would a man-made island show up in Shadesmar? Would it just show up?
It would show up usually as a regular island, depending on how long it's been there, and how people think of it, and stuff like that.
What does First of the Sun look like on the Cognitive Realm? I think it’s a whole bunch of grubs, or worms.
*laughs* That's read and find out. C’mon you know I’m not gonna reveal Cognitive Realm on the other ones! You know I am keeping that one only in my head.
It says that it's dangerous to travel to Shadesmar on Sel. Why?
It has to do with the Dor and the lack of an entity controlling much of the power Odium left in his wake on Sel.
Woah, that's interesting. I had no idea Odium left little bits of his power on Sel... I guess it kinda makes sense for evil monks to be powered by pure hate, though.
Odium did not leave his power behind, one should note. He left several other powers which are now, to a large extent, mindless...
If you wouldn't mind answering, does Roshar have a similar problem, with Honor being Splintered?
No, Roshar does not have the same problem. There are some differences going on. One reason being that the spren are far more extensive on Roshar, and provide something of a "release valve." The seons and the skaze on Sel are not numerous enough to fulfill a similar function. Though, of course, that's only one part of the puzzle. Raw power is dangerous.
It's one reason everyone should be thankful Kelsier was around on Scadrial.
Can you interact with Shadesmar's beads ? Like crush or split them ? What would be the consequences in the Physical Realm ?
RAFO! :)
It has been stated repeatedly that the cognitive realm is geometrically flat. Like, flat earth flat. However, it is mathematically impossible to turn a sphere (such as the surface of a planet) into a flat plane without cuts or overlaps [by the Borsuk-Ulam theorem]. So my question is simply… how does the cosmere resolve these issues? Are there places on every planet where if you walk across a line in the physical realm, you’d now be in a completely different spot in the cognitive realm? Or perhaps places where two points of the physical realm collide in the cognitive realm?
Good question. And I don’t have an answer. I’ve always like Dymaxion maps, and those have big gaps. I would be fine with Shadesmar being non-Euclidean.
Thanks for the answer! If I may ask for clarification, when you say non-Euclidean do you mean going back on the whole "Shadesmar is flat" thing (since Euclidean just means flat), or do you mean it having a structure like e.g. the mentioned Dymaxion map (or perhaps even wilder things like planets being entirely disconnected)?
I mean something like when you get to where the edge of a segment on a Dymaxion map would be, you step across seamlessly into the next section even though there should be a huge gap.
I had always envisioned the cognitive realm as a Möbius strip. Flat, one sided, infinite, and ultimately a (sort of) loop. Is that accurate?
I don’t know if it’s a loop at all.
How do states of matter affect how things look in the Cognitive and Spiritual Realms?
So, generally, how people perceive something is very important to the reflection in the Cognitive Realm, and so the physical state of matter is going to be involved in that, but generally, it flows the other direction from the Spiritual Realm.
Do the forms of Investiture that we've seen, Stormlight, metals, Shardpools, do the fact that those happen in general the same types of states of matter, all physical, solid, is kinda going to be like metal for Investiture?
Yeah, that is generally the way it will be.
Without necessarily naming the particular Shardworld, could you describe what the Cognitive Realm looks like in a Shardworld other than Roshar? Again, you don't have to say which one in particular, and it could even be a Shardworld we haven't seen before.
Hmm... There is a place where it's an empty wasteland of near-nothingness.
The beginning of the trouble in [the Cognitive Realm] near Sel, is that coincident with the onset of the Chasm?
The beginning of the trouble in [the Cognitive Realm] near Sel, was that-- did it coincide with the beginning of the Chasm. No, good question.
Shadesmar is an inversion of Roshar. In the Physical Realm, planets are disconnected, but in Shadesmar you can reach one from the other. Is there a point in Shadesmar where I can instantly cross between diametrically opposed points on Roshar?
Yes, technically there is, but oceans, etc. are problematic since there's not enough minds there. There are points, but the transition is more steady than instantaneous. It will be hard, since you're basically leaving the planet when you go far enough. If you just went south, you'd end up on another planet. Kind of yes. Shadesmar gets funky because you end up in no man's land. We'd need to do the exact maths on that one.
You know how the whole group goes into Shadesmar. What would happen if they accidentally eat a bead, and then leave Shadesmar?
That would not be good for them.
Would they just explode with whatever the object was?
That's not exactly how it works. Fortunately. But I wouldn't recommend ingesting any beads.
How deep are you going into Shadesmar in Words of Radiance?
Not terribly deep in Words of Radiance. We're going to have to wait until Jasnah or Shallan are exploring it more.
The "substance" who compose Shardworlds's Cognitive Realm has not yet a Canon name, Essence would be nice but it may be confusing with the Vorin's Essences therefore he have to make a better choice.
As the two Realms, the Cognitive and the Spiritual, are, well, fictional... Are they all comprised of Investiture, completely?
Yes. No, completely? Well, here's the thing. Investiture, matter, and energy are all the same thing in the cosmere. So, just like energy and matter are the same thing here. So, yes, everything's made of Investiture, in the same way that everything's made of energy in our world. Does that make sense?
So, what about what spren are made of in the Cognitive Realm? Is that just Investiture?
So, yeah, I'll dig more into that. I'm gonna go with Investiture for now, but I could change that as I move along. What I'm kind of debating is, is there a separate Cognitive state, and I don't think so. So I'm gonna go with Investiture for now.
How about Connection?
Connection is, like, the equivalent of a quantum connection in our world, so it's more like a force than something comprised of something. The question is like, "What is gravity comprised of?" And then you start asking weird questions.
So like as far as distance traveled in Shadesmar. So when Kelsier is in Shadesmar, he meets the Ire, who are presumably Elantrians. How far did he travel? Is that still within Scadrial's realm of the Cognitive Realm?
Yeah, that's within-- By the time he meets them he has slipped right to the edge of the Cognitive Realm on Scadrial and into, kind of, the darkness between planets.
Okay.
He's close enough that he can get there. But he's kind of suffused with Scadrian Investiture then, to a point that it would be harder--you saw in there--for him to get further. I would say that he's like... He has entered space between planets, but he's not out of the solar system.
Okay, so he's still in the Scadrian system, just not--just edging a bit there.
Yeah, yep. That's what I'd say if I had to actually point him in that <a map>. It gets really fuzzy though, because it wouldn't be too much longer before he enters another solar system. Like, he would pass lightyears in steps as he starts getting further, if that makes any sense.
That makes sense, because, I mean, with worldhopping in general it's like... You can only... I mean it's... I don't know how the time dilation works per se, but...
It's not-- there's not much time dilation. What you've got going on is... Things that people aren't around to think about, things without minds or any sort of life, don't manifest on Shadesmar very much at all. And so the space between planets gets really small, unless there's another planet out there with thinking beings or at least some sort of life on it. Like even lower lifeforms, you'll get something manifesting on Shadesmar. But yeah
Okay. So the Cognitive Realm, in Shadesmar... It's kind of the... Any kind of sentient or cognitive life-- that's what is building Shadesmar? So like anything where there's blackness... is like... condensed or--
Yes, yes. Particularly if no one's thinking about it. If people are thinking about it - like, for instance, an island in the ocean that was scoured of all life and even bacteria would still manifest in Shadesmar on that planet because people are aware of it and things like this. But one on the other side of the planet, that no one ever knew about it, probably wouldn't.
So that same island, if people just stopped thinking about it or like stopped being aware of its presence, would it...
It could slowly vanish, yes. And so-- But that's more of a thought experiment. You're never gonna have a planet that that happens to, you know cause-- but thought experiment wise, yes, that would eventually kind of get consumed by Shadesmar and vanish. The same thing would happen to a planet that you strip the atmosphere from--all the bacteria and life dies on it--you know, slowly going to vanish. But a moon will still manifest because people are thinking about it. It'll just not-- it won't-- it'll be hokey, it'll be weird--the moon will be. Like you might find a little patch that represents the moon. Something like that.
That's interesting.
You're not gonna find the full landscape of the moon until people start visiting it. And it's gonna grow on Shadesmar.
So you said, so the only two ways to really worldhop are Cognitive Realm or FTL.
I did not say that, I said...
So there could be another way?
Yes. I said, if you couldn't use Shadesmar, is there another way. I did not say there are only two ways.
Okay, so there could be more than two ways?
Yes.
Okay, thank you. That's the answer I was looking forward to.
In Shadesmar, the solid and liquid phases are inverted. So, in the Spiritual Realm, is it something to do with solid and gas phases, or is it not the same at all?
It is not quite where you're going, but I like the way you're thinking.
So then what's the reason that they can't travel to the Spiritual Realm?
The Spiritual Realm is not a place.
Supposing that a skilled Hemalurgist got hold of some a Shardblade or some Shardplate, how would he best use it assuming that the best way isn't to put it on and kill people with it.
That's probably the best way, to put it on and kill people with it. I'm not sure why a Hemalurgist would want one more than anyone else would because the metal is already Invested which means its not useful to him.
So there is no way that he could use a Hemalurgic spike to take some power from the Spren that's crafting it.
Oh, that's what you're saying. You want to grab something off the Spren? That's gonna be way harder than grabbing one that's not already made into something. So I don't see why he would want the Blade, just go grab it from them. Even then its going to be worse then, probably in most cases, a person. Maybe its possible that spiking yourself with a Spren would be valid, but you don't want to take it out of the Shardblade. That's gonna be harder, but you would probably have to go to the Cognitive either way to make it work, so yeah.
So, the Purelake in Shadesmar is mountainous. Does this in any way have to do with the fact that the Purelake is so shallow?
No. I haven't yet discussed the nature of the relationship between Shadesmar and the Physical world.
So, when Dalinar has his vision in what he assumes in the Purelake, he sees an obsidian fortress. Is that fortress in any way related to the fact that the Purelake in Shadesmar is mountainous?
No.
What does the Cognitive Realm of this world [Lumar] look like? Please tell me it is just normal liquid water.
RAFO. It's a good guess.
One that's probably for Peter. Shadesmar appears to be flat. And you talk about people walking between worlds. But worlds are spherical. What's up with that?
This has given him a bit of a headache. It works in my brain, and I'm pretty sure we can make it on the world. Remember, things people think about manifest in Shadesmar, so I've been able to work out a map where places that just aren't inhabited are shrunk in Shadesmar.
And they turn into points, so you can just walk off them?
Yeah.
Shadesmar- you can WALK to the other planets. It’s a pretty far ways away (at least days, if not more), but you can go to Shadesmar, walk in the directions where it says "The Realm of the Vapors" and it runs into Scadrial (which is confirmed). In Shadesmar all of that empty space doesn't really have any human interaction, so it doesn't really have an aspect in the cognitive realm, so all of that place gets shortened immensely. Whenever a planet has enough thinking life on it that's it's considering it a planet, it drops into Shadesmar.
Eventually, he’ll come out with a Shadesmar map of the Cosmere, and a Starmap as well.
