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Is someone limited to how many Nahel bonds they can form, or could someone go play Pokéspren and catch them all, getting access to all Surges?
There are limits to what a soul can handle. These limits are soft caps, not hard caps. Pokéspren is theoretically possible, but there would be hoops, not just the normal "I want to bond two spren" hoop, which is already a pretty big one.
If a Radiant was spiked, would their bond be ripped away and could their bonded spren be forced on whoever inserted the spike? Would it matter if that person didn't have any cracks in their soul?
RAFO. (Sorry.)
At any point in the Rosharan history, was it possible to form a Nahel bond without swearing oaths?
"Nahel bond" is the phrase used for a bond between a spren and a being from the Physical Realm. That is the definition of it. So the answer to that is yes; it's currently possible right now. It's how greatshells exist and grow to the size they do. It's how Ryshadium exist. Those are Nahel bonds also.
What you're asking is if a sapient spren, a spren and a sapient individual, forming what we currently call the Radiant bond, which has access to much greater power; was that possible without swearing oaths? Yes and no. The formalization of the oaths and the Orders aligned with certain spren did take a little bit of time to come together. It was possible to form a Nahel bond before that, but it was not a Radiant bond accessing the levels of powers that are currently possible. So it's another one of these "yes and no" answers, if that makes any sense.
You could find a Nahel bond... In fact, many would call the bond between the singers and the spren that give them forms Nahel bonds. It may not fit fully into the categorization that most people would use it for, but you could kinda call that the same thing.
In the reading that you did, the Nahel bond, has it changed?
Yes. So, spren were added, and things like that. What [Taln?] had would still be called a Nahel bond. A Nahel bond in the original definition means bond to divinity, but that's come to encompass a lot more in the cosmere, any time you're bonding with-- the bond between a soul and Investiture. But in the original version, it was more only with a Shard of Adonalsium or something like that.
If a Shard were to heal the cracks in someone's spiritweb, like Sazed did with Spook, and that person who was getting healed has a Nahel bond, would that break the bond?
No, because the Nahel bond is already filling in those cracks, so you would have to rip it off to put something else in there.
So it wouldn't really be-- the Shard wouldn't be able to heal--
Well, the Shard-- Like, here's the thing we have to get at with this, what we're getting at, which is the question of, for instance, is Kaladin's depression a flaw in him that needs to be healed? And that is a question for philosophers. There are certainly people, cosmere and outside the cosmere, that say "Yes, this needs to be healed" and things like this. But what about somebody who's-- say, someone who is autistic, and their mind just works in a different way, and this way allows a certain bond to happen that couldn't otherwise happen? Is that a flaw, or is that-- is it a bug or a feature, to speak in coding terms? Is what's up with Kaladin a bug or a feature? I know that my wife would probably get rid of her depression if she could, but it's also been fundamental in how she sees the world and who she is, would that change her into a different person? And things like this. So, I want you when you discuss this, to be very careful about treating mental illness as a flaw as opposed to an aspect of a human personality that allows certain different things to happen. Does that make sense? *applause*
The way I was sort of thinking, was, could Odium say, "Oh, I'm just going to fix this" and then you can't Surgebind anymore?
Right, right, yeah. If he-- if there w-- that is possible, but it would be hard to do without the consent of the person, but that is possible… You can fix somebody in a way that they didn't want to be fixed, and it would ruin things.
Is the Nahel bond Hemalurgically transferable?
I don't know what I've said on this in the past, but I'm gonna RAFO it right now, and give you a card. Because there's some things involved in this that I don't know that I want to dig into right now. Nahel bond would be used cosmerelogically to refer to any bond where the mingle of sapient spren mixes with a sapient Physical Realm being. Connection between a Cognitive or Spiritual Realm being and a Physical Realm being. And there's all sorts of things involved in doing that that I don't want to necessarily get into right now.
Why is it called a Nahel bond?
That is a word in Rosharan. I'm not sure what it meant in 2002, but it basically just means "the bond to divinity." I'm not sure what the 2002 version of the linguistics played out as. I actually just called it Nahel in the original draft. I added "bond" in as I prepared this [Way of Kings Prime excerpt] for reading so it would make more sense to people.
How important are bonds like the Nahel Bond and a seon bond in the Cosmere?
I'd say very important.
Is this kind of bond relatively common or is what seons, spren, and Nightblood do little more rare among Splinters. I'm specifically talking about the act of making bonds not a giving of magic powers really, that appearing to be function of Roshar. Also regarding your post about Stormlight 3 I am personally okay with 2000 pages if need be so make the chapters as long as you want.:)
The bonding is basically the same mechanic, regardless of the world, just with different flavoring. Roshar isn't the only place where the bond gives powers; it's a matter of what's stuffed into the soul, and how.
Can a Nahel Bond be stagnant because of a spren's inability to progress? If the spren has a character deficiency they cannot break through or something?
Can a spren cause the Nahel Bond to not progress? This is possible. Not very common but it is possible.
So, if a bonded human were to decide for whatever reason that he/she wanted to retire from being a Radiant, is it possible to do that or is the Nahel bond a lifetime gig?
For example, say Kaladin felt he could no longer uphold the requirements of being bonded to Syl, or eventually he just got old or worn out.
Retiring from the bond is possible under mechanics I haven't talked about yet in the series.
The namesake of the Nahel bond. Was that a person, or is just a name?
It's a word in original Alethi as I was working on it. And actually, the original didn't use "bond." Bond was implied by it. The word meant, "connection to the divine." It's gotten larger since then...
So when Vasher takes a similar name [Zahel], he's trying to imply that meaning?
Yes.
Is it possible to form a bond with a Threnodite Shade?
Oh like a Nahel bond, a spren bond? RAFO.
Radiants stay Invested after death in the Cognitive Realm. Does this mean that the Nahel Bond lasts until they go Beyond or does the bond end when the body dies?
RAFO. We'll add one to the RAFOlympics. Good question, I like the way you're theorizing.
[If someone were] born like Vin, could they bond a spren, before they're even cognizant? 'Cause it's about being broken, right? So, I don't know if it's the same brokenness that Vin had from just being born.
Different spren will view this differently, and different people view the way that the Nahel bond works differently. So, Vin would certainly have been of interest to a number of spren.
Is the power of the bond between humans and spren, the Nahel bond, or from the swords—the existing Shardblades—that causes the eyes to turn light?
Yes.
Is the bond between a seon and its master similar to the Nahel bond between a Surgebinder and his spren?
Yes.
First on Nahel bonds and a bit of a darker question. We know from Syl that if their bonded person is killed in some way, the spren does not die like they do when one breaks their Oaths. However, would Oaths count as being broken if the Radiant committed suicide? Were there any Radiants during the Recreance who did in an effort to spare their spren?
This would be an individual case basis, but I would say that the baseline is no--this alone wouldn't count as breaking the oaths, but getting around the issue of that specific event wouldn't work.
I was wondering if a bond to a spren, a Nahel bond, may be taken with a Hemalurgic spike.
This is possible but it's gonna-- Since the spren has free will it's going to be-- Yeah it's going to have weird ramifications but it is a possible thing.
If an Elantrian bonded to a Seon were to travel to Roshar, would that act as a Nahel bond?
It would act very, very similarly, yes. But it would be like... it wouldn't necessarily do the exact same things. Like if you've got two radios tuned to a frequency, they won't necessarily pick up another radio frequency, or things like this. I don't know, that's a bad metaphor, I'd have to think of a better one. But it would be treated exactly the same way but it might not grant the same powers.
Can Hemalurgy steal a Nahel bond? And if so, would that bond be unbreakable for as long as the spike was implanted.
This is a very dangerous and frightening thing in the cosmere, but it is possible--and the implications of it are something I intend to cover eventually in the books.
We've seen that it's possible to bond multiple Shardblades, what about multiple spren?
RAFO!
How many spren-- can you only bond one spren?
That's a Read-And-Find-Out. You'll have to read and see.
Hi. I have two questions about the Cosmere. The first one is if a Radiant can have a bond with two spren, and the other one is if Truthwatcher spren are related directly with Cultivation or the Nightwatcher?
Okay, so RAFO on if a Knight Radiant can have two spren. But the second question was, "Are spren of Cultivation?" One more time?
If the spren of the Truthwatchers are related directly with Cultivation or the Nightwatcher? Or both?
So, most of the sapient spren that form the Orders of Knights Radiant are related to a mixture of Honor and Cultivation. Some lean one direction much more than the other, and the spren of the Truthwatchers leans toward Cultivation.
You've pretty much implied yes [to bonding more than one spren].
I did not say yes.
You implied. <What about> more than one type of spren? Different types of spren?
Let's see what happens. This is not impossible.
So you said how stuff is stuffed into the soul changes what a bond can give. Is that like the difference between a Spren bonding a Person and and maybe Hemalurgy forcing a bond or is it more like the difference with how Parshendi form bonds with Spren?
I guess a better way to say that is would the bond be different if a human created the bond with a Spren not a Spren Bonding with a human?
These things are all important parts of the system, and I'm curious to see where fans go in exploring the possibilities and theories related to it.
...
RAFO
Could you Awaken a chasmfiend as a Lifeless with just one Breath, or would it require more?
It probably would require more.
And would a Lifeless chasmfiend still function normally, because they use spren in order to support their weight?
Yeah, it wouldn't be able to make the Nahel bond work, so it would collapse.
What would happen to a spren if someone with a Nahel bond Ascended?
It's a good question, and it is also a RAFO.
One. Can there be Nahel Bonds with more then ten types of spren because we have ten Orders.
Meaning, are there other possible spren that could form other Orders of Knights Radiant that are not the ten? This is theoretically possible, but that is basically what you could argue is happening to Renarin. So now if you want to say... if you want to throw out the exception of spren who were one of the ten who got changed, then this is theoretically possible but right now currently wouldn't work.
Can an Awakened form a nahel bond with a spren on Roshar?
Depends on the spren!
The Nahel bond, what determines whether you get a Cryptic or an honorspren?
The spren themselves.
So it doesn't have to do with the Orders of the Knights Radiant?
If you match, you have to attract the spren, the same way you attract emotionspren, you have to attract the right spren for the Order.
What is the effect of the Nahel bond on human lifespan
RAFO.
Are all the kinds of intelligent spren seen in the Shadesmar chapters capable of forming Nahel bonds?
RAFO.
Because of Kelsier's status as a Cognitive Shadow we've been wondering what wonky things you can do with him being like that and so-- Hypothetically, purely hypothetically, could a Surgebinder, could somebody form a Nahel bond with him?
With Kelsier? We'll RAFO that. We will definitely RAFO that for now
I had asked if the Nahel bond was named after "El".
El's name comes from the same root, but is not the originator of the term.
Simple, harmless, totally non-contro one. Can a spren unilaterally sever a Nahel bond (i.e. where the Radiant doesn't agree and hasn't technically, according to spren and Radiant, broken an oath)?
Yup, no controversy here at all.
This is possible. But I'm not going to go into the mechanics.
Could a Knight Radiant pass their Nahel bond the way seons can be passed in Elantris?
Theoretically possible and in fact has happened in previous eras.
A question related to that. There's an idea going around that all the spren that can Nahel Bond, all Knight Radiant spren are called honorspren, and then Nohadon talks specifically about honorspren. Is that the case? You know, is it just the Windrunner spren, or is it all the spren?
I'm going to deal with this in the next book. So I'll just go ahead and let it be a literal RAFO. It is coming.
*interruption, leading Brandon to lose his train of though*
So what we are dealing with here is that all spren are indeed all pieces of the one who has gone, so those spren are all- except the Windrunner spren, the spren like Syl, have certain umm.
Nohadon mentioned that "All the spren aren't as discerning as honorspren."
So there has been dissension among them about who gets to call themselves honorspren, if that makes sense, and there is some disagreement among scholars about which ones are really, you know "This is what defines an honorspren".
But the spren you are running into are all *inaudible* of either Honor or Cultivation, or some mixture between them. And you can usually tell the ones that are more Honor, and the ones that are more Cultivation. That should be able to be *inaudible*.
When does a person become a Surgebinder? Cause Kaladin talks about when he was a child, talked about it being a familiar feeling, and Shallan obviously was younger. Or is it when they speak the Words?
The bond starts forming before the Words are spoken, but if the words are never spoken that bond will eventually evaporate and get broken. But the bond will start forming before. Just like an emotion attracts a spren, acting in the way that the spren you would eventually bond will start drawing them toward you and that will start to create that bond.
If you were to use Hemalurgy on a Surgebinder, would it steal the Surge or the actual spren bond?
It's going to steal the spren bond, but you've got to remember the spren has power over that bond. So what you're doing is (1) incredibly evil, even more evil, but (2) you may not end up with what you want, because that spren has free will in most cases. You may go through all this trouble and then they may break the bond, and you would be left without it. So you would need something else to force them to be unable to break the bond, which would be even more evil, but it is possible in Hemalurgy.
Considering that bonding a second spren to belong to another Order is possible but never happened, and taking into account that spren get drawn to an individual through their bond, is it possible for an individual to bond another spren of the same Order? If not, then what's stopping them from the bond that doesn't stop bonding to a different Order?
This could happen too, I suppose, but it wouldn't increase their strength in the Order.
So, the fan page wanted to know. Would it be possible for Hemalurgy to steal a living Shardblade? That was the top voted question.
Ok, so you're bonded to a Shardblade. You get spiked, then they spike off the bond so that the Shardblade is bonded to someone else.
I assume so...
But can they do it with a living Shardblade? You can definitely do it with a dead Shardblade because its just stealing the Connection. With a living Shardblade, yes you could do that 'though the spren could break the bond at will.
So the spren would survive? That was the second-- the corollary--
Ehhh. Would the spren survive? The spren would survive as long as the oaths were--
Intact?
--the person didn't break the oaths. But you could theoretically steal the bond, break the oaths, and kill the spren. If you wanted to. Its a very convoluted to kill a spren, they are easier to kill than that, but yes. You could do that. That is a viable but twisted route that you can do. You would end up with a dead spren and a Shardblade, so there is that. But there are easier ways to accomplish that...
Is there a limit to how many Shardblades you can have? Be bonded to?
Theoretically, not really. There are some things that could bound that. I can imagine people having a lot. In the original draft of The Way of Kings (2002) Amaram had two. And so, it's definitely possible to have multiples, and I had not thought of someone trying to bond every Shardblade.
So that means you can be bonded to more than one spren.
Well, those Shardblades... Can you be bonded to more than one spren? That question's answer is also yes. Potentially. But there is a much harder limit on that.
So there are some forms of Investiture that some people can access regardless: like BioChromatic Breath, but there are some that are not like Allomancy—and there are a few exceptions of course—but are there other ways besides [hemalurgic] spikes that you can access investiture from different worlds?
Like if an Elantrian went to-
If you can blank your Identity and create the right Connection you can have it happen.
If an Elantrian showed up on Roshar, they wouldn't bond with a spren?
They can bond with a spren, the spren is up to the spren's choice. The spren can bond with whoever they choose to bond with.
So, if you could take, whether capture or talk into a Radiant spren from Roshar that was no longer bonded to a Radiant, from Roshar to Nalthis, could you bond that spren to an awakened object? Could you take a spren from Roshar and either force it to or talk it into bonding an awakened object on Nalthis?
Oh boy. That'd be really hard.
What would happen to Syl, say, if Kaladin dies? Can she transfer the bond to someone else?
So long as Kaladin did not forsake his oaths, Syl would be traumatized (as one might imagine) but be capable of forming another bond.
Good to know she can form another bond. I'm guessing she'll be a little more mindless in the interim, though?
Yes, without a strong tie to the Physical realm, she would have trouble thinking here if she pulled through to exist here.
Does Dalinar bond with the Stormfather differ from any other spren bond?
This bond is a little different.
Can people not from Roshar bond with spren and get the Shardplate and whatnot?
RAFO. Well, okay. You don't need me to RAFO on that. You have seen someone not from Roshar bond a spren. You have seen that much happen.
We know for sure that Hoid is a Lightweaver.
Do we know that?
Hoid has bonded a spren.
When you get, like, bonded with a spren-- the type of spren that is bonded to you, it depends on your personality and beliefs, right?
Yes, mmhmm. The spren kind of choose, but they-- It's not a hundred percent choice. More like if they're drawn to it, things like that. So who you are, what your beliefs are, what your kind of moral code is can influence what type of spren you would get.
If someone was using an Honorblade, would they be able to bond a spren?
It is indeed possible.
Possible. It doesn't block it in any way.
It does not block it. Good question. You do not have to bond Honorblades. Honorblades work with whoever holds them.
So how did Shallan rescue Kaladin when they fell in the chasm?
She did not. It was actually Syl, but he was in the process of breaking the bond, and so she was able to get some Stormlight to him. But that is what really set it really poorly. Like you can imagine, she-- this bond was really a strain for her to use at that point, so it was her. But doing what she did just about destroyed her, which is why you don't hear from her after that.
