Calamity Chicago signing

Event details
Name
Name Calamity Chicago signing
Date
Date Feb. 22, 2016
Location
Location Naperville, IL
Tour
Tour Calamity
Bookstore
Bookstore Anderson's Bookshop
Entries
Entries 61
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#1 Copy

Questioner

What race is Sazed? We have an argument on this but...

Brandon Sanderson

The Terris have intermixed to the point that they-- Skin tone run the gamut, from being indistinguishable to being darker-skinned. When I write them and say darker-skinned they get as dark as perhaps a dark Indian, East Indian. But they can range in that skin tone.

#2 Copy

Questioner

So did you come up with the weakness of the Epics being from fears out of Steelheart book or did you already think of that ahead when you wrote Steelheart?

Brandon Sanderson

I had that.  In fact there’s a deleted scene where I dug into the nightmares in the first book, and it didn’t end up getting into it.  Plus it was a little too--

Questioner

Reveal?

Brandon Sanderson

--foreshadowy, yeah.  But it was from the beginning.  I always kind of thought the fears being your weakness would be a really cool way to approach superheroes.

#4 Copy

Argent

About the Returned, they don’t quite fit the other Splinters, their Breath rather, because it’s the divine Breath that’s a Splinter, right?

Brandon Sanderson

Ehhhhhhh…. Ehhhhhhh....

Argent

Okay, that was vague.

Brandon Sanderson

Not a 100% correlation there.

Argent

So in that case it’s not entirely fair to say that the Returned are like vessels for--

Brandon Sanderson

No… Well, more vessels than the people that are in [T’Telir…]

So, Endowment is in control of what’s happening, right?

Argent

The giving of Breaths.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. So what you’ve got to remember-- and this is something that people keep mistaking is-- something like a spren is still part of the god, right?  And it’s not that different from the fact that the rock has a part of the body in it, and that everything is kind of made—Like in Mistborn world in particular, everything is made out of their essence. And so, the Breath are similar, but it’s less that-- they’re not autonomous in most cases and it’s more like-- it’s like a hybrid of what’s happening in Mistborn where everybody’s got a bit of Preservation in them. Everyone’s got a bit of Endowment in them.

Argent

Innate Investiture.

Brandon Sanderson

Innate Investiture that they are born with.

Argent

I was looking to divine Breath, more specifically.

Brandon Sanderson

Oh divine Breath! … Divine Breath is its own special thing, and it’s more like what happened with the Honorblades, in that the god is pouring a bit of its Investiture, infusing the magic.

#5 Copy

Argent

At the end of The Bands of Mourning, Wax starts seeing what seems like souls, as he’s holding the Bands. He sees lines. He ponders that man/metals they’re same thing. Is he seeing Investiture there?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, to an extent he’s seeing—yes. He’s seeing the Cosmere equivalent of atoms, Investiture, and energy waves all being the same thing.

Argent

Okay, so kind of a building block of things.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it’s almost like he’s seeing the axi, right, the atoms.

#6 Copy

Questioner

Shardblades, they sever <limbs? people’s?> connection to the Spiritual Realm. So, that being said,  they cut inanimate matter like a regular sword but inanimate matter is projected into the Cognitive Realm.  So does inanimate matter have a Connection to the Spiritual Realm? In the same way living things do?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, but it doesn’t have the same thing going on.

#10 Copy

Questioner

I’m interested in Adonalsium. Out of the people that were leftover from just before its Breaking [Shattering], did they think it was a good idea or a bad idea?

Brandon Sanderson

Uhhh… Opinions are mixed.

Questioner

Is it mixed between the Vessels and the non-Vessels?

Brandon Sanderson

Most of the Vessels support the decision that they made. I would say of those remaining, who are not Vessels, the majority think it was a bad idea. I would say it’s split between them (?), it’s not 100%

Questioner

What’s the number of [people on Yolen?] remaining that are not the Vessels

Brandon Sanderson

Not many.  It is a number that you could count to reasonably.

#11 Copy

Dragon13

Of the short stories included in the Mistborn Adventure Game, I know you were involved in The Eleventh Metal. Are the others considered canon?

Brandon Sanderson

The Allomancer Jak [and the Pits of Eltania] one, yes. Everything else, no.

#16 Copy

Eric

In Secret History we learn the 16 Shards that Shattered Adonalsium. Was that done [on behalf of the anti-Adonalsium force]?

Brandon Sanderson

You’re focusing too much on this idea of an anti-Adonalsium. It—the original question I believe that was asked me was “is there a force that is opposed to Adonalsium” and it left me a lot of wiggle room. In other words, the people who killed Adonalsium, you could say were a force, any person who opposed Adonalsium... What they were trying to get was a “devil” but to do that you must assume Adonalsium was a more Christian-style God, and I haven’t confirmed any of that.

#18 Copy

Questioner

In Secret History, we see an Aon written in the steel Alphabet, have we seen any other kind of-- examples of something similar yet?

Brandon Sanderson

I don’t think we’ve shown you any, that doesn’t mean they don’t exist. For instance the Aon written on the wall in Emperor’s Soul would probably not look exactly like an Aon, because it’s different culture.

Questioner

Similar to the Dakhor monks use different...

Brandon Sanderson

No, more along the lines of, if you start writing-- if Chinese characters became a big part of everyday life in America, we would probably end up changing them so they don’t actually look like one 100%, does that make sense?  So yes and no, like that.  I don’t think I’ve ever drawn one out like that, but there are references to other characters and other cultures [across the cosmere].

#19 Copy

triforceorder

Is the dying process - death, to Cognitive Realm staging area, to the Beyond - a universal process in the Cosmere?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes. it is a universal process. People don’t always hang out as long, depending on how much Investiture is around.

#22 Copy

Alterodent

If a hermit were to take a whole lot of cadmium and go off and live by himself, how far within a lifetime, reasonably, could he get into the future by essentially time-capsuling himself? Assuming they live to be 70 or 75.

Brandon Sanderson

They could get pretty far.

Alterodent

What would the savantism do to them?

Brandon Sanderson

The savantism would probably allow them to get further… It’s completely reasonable… you can treat this like relativistic travel.

#23 Copy

Kurkistan

How broadly can a time-bubbler control the attributes of the bubble? Like could he make it ten times smaller to make it ten times more powerful?

Brandon Sanderson

It is more controllable than I have generally shown in the books.

Kurkistan

And does the size correspond inversely to the strength?

Brandon Sanderson

No.

#24 Copy

Kurkistan

So when that cork [in The Bands of Mourning] was thrown above the train, if the cork had been thrown by someone who was standing besides the train, what would have happened when the bubble hit [the cork]? So the bubble's moving at 60mph and the cork [is not moving laterally relative to the bubble] and gets hit by a bubble...

Brandon Sanderson

Right. Right right right... So... this one's complicated. Let me see if I can... So anything that touches the bubble will immediately be lodged into the bubble, and be hit by that... So say you throw something up, the bubble hits it, is what you're asking?

Kurkistan

Yeah.

Brandon Sanderson

But it does not have momentum the same as the thing? So it would probably be in the bubble for a short time.

Kurkistan

So if I threw the cork straight, and then the bubble came from the right, the cork would shift to the right within the bubble as the bubble thought it was moving or something? So the bubble thinks the cork is travelling like 60mph North, the cork thinks it's not moving at all... So does the cork move the opposite direction of the bubble or something?

Brandon Sanderson

Ask Peter the math on that one, and I'll have him run the math. That one's kind of... it's kind of like the time travel train experiment stuff, with the flags and things. So let's go ahead and PAFO that one.

#25 Copy

Kurkistan

<Gives text of original conversation with Brandon>

To restate the scenario in more understandable terms (phase 2 is to use diagrams, if it comes to it and I still don't manage to get it across):

Say Cory the cork-thrower is standing besides a train track. Cory is facing North and the train is running from West to East. Cory tosses a cork North up over a passing train. Normally, this cork would go over the train and land on the ground directly opposite Cory to the North.

From the frame of reference of Cory and his cork, the train is moving West->East. From the frame of reference of the train, the train isn't moving at all and the cork is moving both South->North and East->West (i.e., Northwest). So if we were to draw a line describing the cork's movement, Cory's line would have the cork moving South->North over a moving train. The train's line would have the cork travelling Southeast->Northwest as it described a diagonal across the train.

If there's a bubble on the train, that's where things get complicated. When the bubble hits the cork, does the train's frame of reference "take over" so far as it's direction of travel goes? So far as the train is concerned, nothing really changes: the cork is still describing that same diagonal, just more quickly/slowly. But so far as Cory and his cork are concerned, all the sudden the cork is moving laterally (East->West) corresponding to the train's frame of reference. The question, then, is where the cork lands when all's said and done: does it still land directly North of Cory after it passes over the train, or does it land a bit to the West or East as well?

-----

My thoughts/model on this would be that it also lands West/East. If the bubble was a bendalloy bubble, then the corks diagonal passage would be accelerated, meaning that it pops out of the bubble off to the West of where it would have otherwise. A cadmium bubble would still move the cork to the West according to its frame of reference, but because of how slow the bubble itself is in motion the cork would still end up East of Cory.

Peter Ahlstrom

The bubble's frame of reference would take over while it's inside. But you also need to include the fact that bubbles deflect things. The cork would be deflected both when it enters and when it leaves the bubble. So you can't completely predict the path it will take.

Kurkistan

<At this point the conversation kept on for a bit as things grew... complicated. We misunderstood one another [which I take the blame for] on several crucial fronts and ended up talking past one another. Long story short is that I'd been implicitly assuming absolute relativity of reference frames in the cork-bubble system—so while both types of bubble would drag the cork along for a bit, that dragging would also be offset (to varying degrees based on bubble type/compression) by lateral movement of the cork within the bubble. This is wrong.>

Peter Ahlstrom

If the train is moving east, and he throws the cork over the train, a bubble that slows the cork down will mean the cork ends up east of him.

If the train is moving east, and he throws the cork over the train, a bubble that speeds the cork up will mean the cork ends up on the other side of the train faster than it would have with no bubble. It doesn't move west.

If the speed bubble only very slightly increases the flow of time, then the cork could even end up slightly east of him, depending on the speed of the train.

So depending on the speed or slowness of the bubble, and the speed of the train, the cork will either end up exactly where the thrower expects it to, but more quickly, slightly east of where he expects, but more quickly, or quite a bit east of where he expects, more slowly. The cork doesn't move west.

In fact, I think it's safe to assume that the train is always moving to the east faster than the thrower is throwing the cork to the north. In that case, both types of bubbles will always end up pushing the cork at least somewhat to the east.

Let's do the math here.

Say the bubble is 10 feet in diameter and the cork toss hits the bubble right in the center. He tossed the cork at 5mph. The bubble is 2x speed. That means the cork goes 10 mph across the train (measuring from the frame of reference of the tosser). The train is moving at 50 mph. The cork crosses the train in 0.682 seconds. In that time the train moves 50 feet to the east. So the cork ends up 50 feet to the east of where the tosser expected it to.

If the bubble is 100x speed, the cork goes 500mph across the train, and in that time the train moves 1 foot. The cork ends up 1 foot to the east of where the tosser expected it to, but much faster than he expected.

If the bubble is 1/2 speed, then the cork goes 2.5 mph across the train. The cork crosses the train in 2.727 seconds. In that time the train goes 200 feet to the east. The cork ends up 200 feet to the east of where the tosser thought it would end up.

If the bubble is 1/100 speed, then the cork goes 0.05 mph across the train. The train moves 1.9 miles in the time it takes the cork to cross the train. The tosser has no idea where it ends up, but he watches it hovering over the train as the train goes off into the distance.

...

As far as the cork is concerned, it can't tell the difference whether it's moving through a stationary bubble or a (laterally) moving bubble. From the cork's point of view it moves in a straight line either way.

Kurkistan

<Some doodles got involved at one point or another, and it was also confirmed that the path of the cork (barring refraction) would stay the same once it left the bubble, still going directly north>

#26 Copy

Kurkistan

How exactly does Hemalurgic decay work for Feruchemy? Is it like a leaky tube or something, or…?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah… yeah.

Kurkistan

So they try to store 10 units of health and only 9 gets through, or…?

Brandon Sanderson

Hemalurgic decay meaning someone who has been spiked is less powerful? That Hemalurgic decay, or the Hemalurgic decay when a Hemalurgic spike is left outside of blood?

Kurkistan

Less powerful. So like the Inquisitors are less powerful Feruchemists so they had to spend longer storing: so why did they have to spend longer storing?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah they lose a little bit, it’s a leaky… You’re there, exactly. It just doesn’t quite… it’s not as efficient: it’s an efficiency thing.

#28 Copy

Questioner

If a kandra and a human were to have a baby, what would that baby be like?

Brandon Sanderson

I would say that right now… It would depend... The kandra would have to remain in human form, keep the same body, and then would give birth to a human. If it was a woman [human] with a man [kandra], it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, with a kandra. Does that make sense? Because when the kandra is in human form, they can identically recreate the bodily functions and things if they want to.

#30 Copy

Questioner

With safehand culture, with one hand feminine, two hand masculine: is knitting considered masculine?

Brandon Sanderson

Knitting is not one of the prime arts, and so it would be considered either direction. It’s not one of the major arts mentioned, so men can knit their socks and things like that at war and not have to feel feminine, but women could knit if they wanted to, also.

Questioner

Okay. So, Dalinar can make baby socks.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, Dalinar can make baby socks and not feel--

Footnote: The questioners were walking away during the last question/answer exchange, which is why Brandon stopped talking mid-sentence there.
#32 Copy

Questioner

For characters like Hoid, who travel between worlds-- Do you have a timeline set out for them, so that they aren’t in two places at once?

Brandon Sanderson

I do [...] But it’s easier to keep this straight by making sure that the books aren’t, so far, happening simultaneously.  But the more short stories I write, the more simultaneous things will get, and so that’s where we need it. Like, I realized I had a contradiction--  Fortunately that I hadn’t canonized in any of the books, when I wrote Secret History.  I was like “Ah, I need to make sure he is where he needs to be.” And stuff like that.

#33 Copy

Questioner

[...] The [...] written on a Shard, is there a correspondence [correlation] between that and when the Blades, and the armor in Words of Radiance and The Way of Kings [...] on a Shardplate?

Brandon Sanderson

Yup, yup.  There is a direct correlation there.

Questioner

The Shard...

Brandon Sanderson

I mean the naming convention is the same naming convention.

Questioner

[from…Radiant...]

Brandon Sanderson

I haven’t answered that yet, and I’ll remain close-lipped on it for now.

Questioner

Where did the worldhoppers get their powers, because if all powers come from the Shards, and the Shards came from the breaking of Adonalsium, so how can Hoid have his powers before...

Brandon Sanderson

That is correct.  So before the breaking there was magic in existence.  For instance, the spren on Roshar, some of them predate the breaking-- the Shattering.

Questioner

So, if spren are caused by thoughts, and the Shards caused some of the humans, and humans cause thoughts, then there were people alive before

Brandon Sanderson

Then there were people on Roshar before the breaking of Adonalsium.

#34 Copy

Questioner

For the next Stormlight [book], will there be chapters from Jasnah's perspective?

Brandon Sanderson

There will be, I believe, at least one chapter from her viewpoint. I could change that but the outline has at least one from her.  It’s dangerous to do too many from her viewpoint because she’s eventually going to be a main viewpoint character, and she has a large chance of taking over a narrative that she’s part of.

#35 Copy

Questioner

About the the last Mistborn series, it's like a sci-fi thing, right? Is it going to be more in a cyberpunk vein or Star Wars?

Brandon Sanderson

More space opera. That’s not to say--  I’ve thought of doing a cyberpunk before, but the third [series] one will have some cyberpunk elements already.

#36 Copy

Questioner

And the characters from [the last Mistborn series], do they end up on a different planet?  Like the planet that Warbreaker takes place?

Brandon Sanderson

By the final Mistborn series there will be space travel between worlds.

#37 Copy

Questioner

In terms of timeline for Mistborn: Secret History and Elantris.  Is there a chance that the characters in Secret History would know the characters from Elantris or are they way far apart...?

Brandon Sanderson

I haven’t really dug into those outlines yet but it’s not impossible.  In fact it’s very possible--  It’s possible for some of the characters in Secret History to have met people from Elantris. That is possible, but some of the people in Secret History are very abnormal, so that's not necessarily to say--

Footnote: Considering that Kelsier, a character from Secret History, has met the Ire - characters from Elantris - this answer may not be telling us much.
#38 Copy

Questioner

Nightblood.  Is there a person-- like are we seeing the outpouring of a sword that can now think more than a sword or was there a person...

Brandon Sanderson

There was--  There were many people who went into that, because it was all the Breaths that were little pieces of people.

Questioner

Okay, but there’s not one person more than another?

Brandon Sanderson

No.  Nope, it attained sapience kind of through sheer weight of Investiture.

#39 Copy

Alex

Taln’s Scar.  Was it present throughout the entire timeline and just not mentioned in books, say Elantris? Or did it appear at a certain point in time?

Brandon Sanderson

It did not appear at a certain point.  And it is not equally visible through the Cosmere, simply because of where it is in the sky and where they are in relation to it and things like that.

Alex

And how much ash in the sky.

Brandon Sanderson

Yes…  Peter knows exactly where it is.

Alex

I am hoping that the map in the anthology...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes, it should.

Tiffany

We are really excited about the map. Also the writing, but really about the map.

Brandon Sanderson

I’ve seen the little star charts that Isaac’s done for each of the worlds, and they are awesome.  Because they’re going to be--  This is more, like it’s the Cosmere Collection, we haven’t hit scientific revolution in most of the worlds yet, so it’s going to be more like if da Vinci had drawn them or something.  So don’t expect--

Brandon Sanderson

So don’t expect it to be like science fiction star charts yet, but they will be very helpful in these sorts of things.

Argent

Could you nudge Isaac to release a wallpaper version or a poster or a printable of any of those?

Brandon Sanderson

Okay yeah, I can totally make him do that.  Like if the full Cosmere one turns out well I’m sure he’ll want to do something like that.

#40 Copy

Rachael

When she [Shallan] Soulcasts, does she physically go?  Or does she just think?

Brandon Sanderson

She transitions into the Cognitive Realm… Yeah she transitions but she’s not a hundred percent there…

Rachael

Then does Jasnah’s… does she work the same way?

Brandon Sanderson

She goes completely over.  That’s one of the differences between their magics. Shallan could get there if she wanted to, she hasn’t so far completely transitioned.

Argent

Even during regular Soulcasting, for both of them?

Brandon Sanderson

Oh for regular Soulcasting Jasnah doesn’t either.

Argent

‘Cause we were talking about the scene with the ship and Shallan. So would an outside observer see her shift over or—

Brandon Sanderson

The outside observer would see weirdness happening for sure.

#41 Copy

Argent

We have a very important question. Would this area be steel in Newcago?

Brandon Sanderson

Would this area be steel in Newcago?  I don’t think it reached here.  I’ve got the map but…  Yeah.

Questioner

We’re just gonna keep asking.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah you guys are going to be okay.

Tiffany

So this is a prediction rather than--

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah, you guys will be okay.

Questioner #1

I'm like seven miles outside of downtown, what about me?

Brandon Sanderson

Uhhhhhh, you're in danger. You're in danger. [...] But actually it's better to be in, because electricity, and power, and things like that. Out here you'd be growing food for [Steelheart]!

Footnote: "This area" referred to in the first question is the bookshop where the signing is taking place.
#43 Copy

Questioner

I’ve noticed that in Stormlight and Mistborn, there’s kind of a money equals power theme...

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.

Questioner

Is that intentional?

Brandon Sanderson

Yes.  I think that the--  In the Cosmere, sources of Investiture or relationships to the magics are going to be-- have an economic force and will naturally start to fall into that. So I’m making a point of--  It happens in Warbreaker too, Breaths have an economic value.

#45 Copy

Questioner

Does Khriss ever figure out how to get sand [to work] on the Darkside?

Brandon Sanderson

Ohhh, that’s a bit of a spoiler.

Questioner

Essentially her reason to become Cosmere-knowledgeable.

Brandon Sanderson

It is one of her primary motivations for where she has gone, is figuring out how all that worked. But her story I want to leave for her book.

#50 Copy

Questioner

This is quick question about outlines… Going on Mistborn, Era 2 is like 300 years after the original series...

Brandon Sanderson

I think it ended up being 200 and something but yeah.

Questioner

And you said that the next trilogy will be in the future, do you have a rough idea of how far...

Brandon Sanderson

I’m planning 70 right now.  But I mean I’m going to have to write it and see.  It is far enough away that you are not going to see most of the characters, but close enough that like you could see--

Questioner

But descendents might be...

Brandon Sanderson

Descendants are totally going to be around.  And you could see some of the characters that are there now. Could be that one of them has just passed away, that sort of thing.

#52 Copy

Argent

Is Vax a planet?  It’s clearly suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

What’s that?

Argent

It’s heavily suggested that it is.

Brandon Sanderson

It is heavily suggested that it is a place.

Argent

It's a place. Okay, I'll take that.

*talking to other attendees* Vax is a place.

Brandon Sanderson

No no, heavily suggested that it's a place, is what I said!

#55 Copy

Kurkistan

Is there such a thing as a Feruchemical savant?

Brandon Sanderson

I did not write Feruchemical savants into the original outline. Whether or not I will do them- it’s highly unlikely because it’s not there and Mistborn is getting trickier and trickier in that regard. But I didn’t write them in, so… that’s a “probably not”.

#56 Copy

Argent

If a Shard wanted to affect another Shard’s magic system, would they need to Invest themselves in the world, or can they just kind of show up and do things?

Brandon Sanderson

“Affect their magic system”? What do you mean by that?

Argent

So for Roshar, let’s say additional Surges or modified Surges. For Scadrial different metals. For Nalthis--

Brandon Sanderson

That would require more than just showing up.

#57 Copy

Questioner

[...] For the picture of all the Radiants and their surges, in the background there’s two dragons. Are those just--

Brandon Sanderson

Those are not dragons. Those are little beasties from the world. You’ve seen them before.

Argent

Larkin?

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah. But you can call them "dragon bugs" if you want, that’s what Isaac called them when I described them.

Questioner

So are they just from the world, or do they have any over-reaching signif--

Brandon Sanderson

Well they have a certain ability that you may have seen in-world, which is pretty distinctive and different, and so they have a lot of mythological import. They are not widely known by most cultures right now.

#58 Copy

Questioner

Is there a orbitary range limiter placed on the powers of an Epic, or does it vary from person to person?

Brandon Sanderson

It differs from person to person.

Questioner

So, for Chicago, what was the range of the city turning into...

Brandon Sanderson

I've got it in my notes. It was basically enough to get me to Soldier Field, because that's where *inaudible*, does that make sense? I thought we'd go to Soldier Field, and then a little ways.

Questioner #1

Like a mile?

Brandon Sanderson

It's a bit more than a mile, it's a couple miles. But the guy who said "7 miles" and I'm like "Yeah, you could be in danger".

Argent

The question is, where was [Steelheart] standing when did [the Grand Transfersion].

Brandon Sanderson

He was in a bank that I actually looked up, that was in downtown, and I changed the name of it. [...] The problem was, it went that far into the lake as well, and I wanted to get a good chunk of the lake, but not like, you know... and so, it's probably like four mile radius or something like that, so the seven mile radius guy is probably okay. I wanted to get downtown, Soldier Field, a little bit beyond...

Questioner

Chicago proper.

Brandon Sanderson

Yeah.

#59 Copy

Questioner

In Scadrial the amount of investiture in humans from Preservation, aka, the amount of Mistborn and mist powers, is that decreasing or just being diffused among the population?

Brandon Sanderson

That power is being diffused among the population, though everybody has some of it already. That power is not.

#60 Copy

Questioner

Can you tell us about a cultural inspiration you’ve used in a world that we have not seen?

Brandon Sanderson

I wrote one that was based off of Mesoamerican- there’s a tribe out of Costa Rica. And I didn’t get the story done, but I used that one… it was really an obscure tribe, which made it really hard to name things and stuff like that. What else have I done that you haven’t seen… <thinking noises> There’s Polynesian stuff you haven’t seen, but you’ve also seen a lot of it [already], so…

Footnote: The transcript uncertainly attributes the question to Alterodent. Check?
Event details
Name
Name Calamity Chicago signing
Date
Date Feb. 22, 2016
Location
Location Naperville, IL
Tour
Tour Calamity
Bookstore
Bookstore Anderson's Bookshop
Entries
Entries 61
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