Argent
Did Gavilar see the same visions Dalinar did?
Brandon Sanderson
RAFO.
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Did Gavilar see the same visions Dalinar did?
RAFO.
Here's the best I can do at what each of the dahns includes, without spoilers. Stuff in italics is unconfirmed but is reasonable to guess based on the information we have from the books and Brandon.
I'm very impressed by this list. You did a great job. Note that only the king is first Dahn under the Alethi system, however. His heir is second, until crowned. Sixth Dahn, as you've identified, is the "landed" cutoff--if you have land, even a little, you're at least Sixth Dahn.
If you were of a specific dahn (say, seventh) but were elevated by something unusual (say, you got appointed to an appointment that would raise you above this) your children will often be elevated to a rank just beneath you. So, for instance, if a tenner got a shard, he'd immediately be elevated to fourth, and his family would likely be elevated to fifth.
The only thing I'd offer a warning on is that sometimes, people shortcut "Captainlord" to just "Captain" which drives Peter crazy, and so it can be hard to pick out rank from title.
That's interesting... so, is the dahn system new since Alethkar was unified? Or was it modified once they got a king? Or was it always this way, and there just used to not be someone at the 1st Dahn?
Kings existed in other places, and had existed in Alethkar before. (Dahn is a Vorin cultural ideal, not just Alethi.) So the system is not new, but for many years, the Alethi refused to accept a king. (Following the division of the kingdom among the Sunmaker's sons.)
Oooooooh... fascinating. So, this implies that before Gavilar unified Alethkar, King Taravangian and the King of Jah Keved would both have been First Dahn, while the highest-ranked ten people in Alethkar were only Second Dahn. Interesting. In the interests of adding a few more names to the list of "known people of the First Dahn" on the Coppermind, would you be willing to confirm if King Taravangian (let's say at the start of the Way of Kings to avoid spoilers) was First Dahn?
Traditionally, the monarchs of city-states (like Kharbranth, Bavland, and at some points Silnasen) do not claim the first dahn. There have been leaders of New Natanan who have, same with Herdaz. Depends on how much they want to aggravate the Alethi.
Unification era, there'd be two people of the first dahn: The queen of Thaylenah and the king of Jah Keved. Non-vorin monarchs in the west would be treated like first dahn, sometimes, depending on the situation.
Did we know that Thaylenah is currently ruled by a Queen, or is this a small tidbit you have just given us?
I'm not sure if I've mentioned it or not, honestly. Queen Fen. You'll get to meet her soon. Note that Thaylenah is kind of a plutocracy, with merchant councils holding a lot of power, which changes its dynamic a little when compared to Alethi or Jah Keved.
I see you may have sneakily included an explanation for the 4th/5th dahn thing I noticed in a certain father-daughter duo. I promise not to read too much into it....
Note that getting a Shardblade isn't the only reason someone could be elevated, and isn't the only reason why children might not be the same dahn as their parent. Most of it has to do with titles, and who inherits, and that sort of thing. The answer is probably more boring than you're hoping.
Not sure if this is entering RAFO territory, but are highprince candidates (that is, people who can be elevated to highprince status if the post is empty) only people from the 3rd dahn? Or can a 4th dahn also be elevated to highprince, for example?
Highprince is a tricky one, as the definition of "highprince" is a person who can convince others to call him by the title. I guess that's the same for all of them, but as highprinces tend to be near the top of the pecking order, it's more about military than anything else.
Gavilar was 4th dahn before becoming highprince, for example. His branch of the Kholin family wasn't considered a prime contender for the highprince throne--until he took it for himself.
His branch of the Kholin family? Does this imply there are other branches of the Kholin family? Meaning, there are other Kholins elsewhere?
Well, not as many as there once were...
So if I'm understanding this correctly, before Gavilar's branch of the Kholin family started their conquest of Alethkar they conquered Kholinar?
Yup. (There's some minor mention of this in Book Three, I believe.)
Are we going to get Gavilar's book?
We are not going to get a book from Gavilar, with a flashback sequence from Gavilar, but we will continue to see viewpoints from what happened that night [of his assassination] and we are likely to get one from him, eventually.
What was Gavilar's opinion on Dalinar? I can't help myself, but I feel Gavilar saw Dalinar more like an effective tool rather than his brother.
He DID have affection for his brother, but Gavilar had a tendency to use everyone like tools to further his goals. Including people close to him.
Would Gavilar be proud of Dalinar if he could see him now?
Proud of some things, not of others. Gavilar would want more ambition from Dalinar than Dalinar has shown. He would think that Dalinar has been too inhibited in certain things he's chosen to do. Yet, at the same time, there are certain things that Gavilar would very much approve of, even things that Dalinar himself is proud of. It would be complicated.
Is Gavilar aware that the “two ambassadors” (one being called Nale) are Heralds? Or were they hiding their identities from him?
This will be soon answered. Suffice it to say that Gavilar knew much more than people thought he did.
So, according to King Taravangian, the... erm... I don't actually know the name for it, the uh, death-babbling phenomenon...
Death rattles.
OK, death rattles have been going on since about the time the Parshendi were first discovered. Soon after this, King Gavilar was killed, and he said something that sounds kind of nonsensical. Was that him talking, or someone else?
No, that was Gavilar.
In the prologue to Way of Kings, when Szeth kills Gavilar, Gavilar says, "Tell Thaidakar he's too late." What's Thaidakar too late for?
*Evil laugh* RAFO. You'll find out. It's coming, not too far away.
Has Dalinar been on the Bondsmith path for a long time? How about Gavilar?
Yes to both.
Brandon said that Gavilar had been on the Bondsmith path for longer than Dalinar has been.
Queen Aesudan, when we see her in Kholinar, seems to have some knowledge of Gavilar's doings and his plans. And given Gavilar's propensity for trying to marry his children to members of secret societies, as seen with Jasnah and Amaram, was Queen Aesudan a member or affiliate of the Sons of Honor?
RAFO!
Brandon, you said we'd know by the end of Oathbringer what Gavilar's black spheres were, but we still don't know what they are. What are they?
People have guessed very correctly about this, so I think I am justified in saying that. Voidlight will become an increasingly important part of the story as things progress. I think there are two main theories on what Gavilar's spheres are, and I think they are both very valid theories supported by the books... I'm not pulling something very sneaky. It is along the lines that you are theorizing.
What was the black gemstone that Gavilar gave to Szeth before he died? Was it Unmade, and what did Szeth do with it?
So Szeth has put it in a safe place, and, "Is it an Unmade or is it not?" is a RAFO.
The gemstone [Gavilar] gives to Szeth in the beginning of the book [The Way of Kings], is that the gemstone that's spoken of in the epigraphs?
RAFO.
I want to know if Taravangian, the Ghostbloods, Amaram, is there any kind of like connecting... are they working together or anything like that?
Taravangian, so the Diagram, the Ghostbloods, is that the two you mentioned? Amaram is Sons of Honor; Amaram and Gavilar are Sons of Honor. These are three different groups who are aware of what is happening and have different philosophies on how to deal with what is coming. They have opposed views, for example, the Sons of Honor are trying to bring back Voidbringers because they believe it will return the heralds as well. Where as the diagram has his plan... y'know, I wont give them away. Some of the are hinted at, you can read. He talks about it, but you can see what he's doing. The Ghostbloods, they have not talked about their motives very much. They have different motives. The Sons of Honor are the easiest to figure out and they are also the most wrong, right. If you read what Taravangian says you can probably see what the Diagram is trying to do.
I wonder if king Galivar is a back 5 main character.
I believe I've announced them all, and he wasn't on the list. (Sorry.)
Do we learn more about Gavilar's motives in [Oathbringer]?
Some, yes. But not the entirety.
So, what happened to Shallan's family? As in--her brothers--the things that happened to Shallan's family, is that related to the black sphere from Gavilar that Szeth hid in Jah Keved?
It's vaguely related but not specifically.
At the beginning of Stormlight, when Gavilar gives Szeth a dark sphere, is that from Shadesmar?
RAFO.
Was the black sphere that Gavilar gave to Eshonai, did it contain the same thing that he gave to Szeth?
Yes! A question I can answer about the black sphere.
So same contents?
Yes.
Secrets
Obviously, there are a lot of things embedded in this scene for later books. I've noted frequently that with Mistborn, I got the luxury of writing the whole series before releasing it. I don't have that chance with Stormlight. I had to make sure all of my foreshadowing was placed and ready for later use.
I worry that so much of it is obvious, yet also confusingly so. The sphere that Gavilar give Szeth is barely mentioned in the book, for example.
No, I'm not going to tell you what it is.
The visions Dalinar gets in WoK always struck me as odd - you don't just look at the past, you are able to act within this experience. Now we know that Gavilar was also on the way to being a Bondsmith - was he acting in a different way? Were the visions only basically the same but different in the end depending on the personal reactions? Is this something like a test?
He did see the same visions. They were the same thing. But... I will say that his reaction to them were very different from Dalinar's reactions to them. Anyway it was difficult for the Stormfather without a bond to determine/to tell the difference between very easily. When Spren are bonded, they gain a lot more ability to understand the world around then, so you'll find out soon more stuff about this in the third book.
The sphere which Gavilar found that Szeth now has--I've been lead to believe that it either is or was heavily invested...
Yes.
Is it still heavily invested?
Yes.
So, it hasn't, like, gone dun or anything?
No, it has not.
And I'm going to take that to mean it wasn't invested with Stormlight--was it invested by Odium?
Something like that.
When Hoid is talking to Dalinar he seems to expect that Dalinar may have heard of Adonalsium.
Adonalsium. Yes.
Why is that? Why would he think that Dalinar would have knowledge about that?
He thought that Dalinar was part of some of the secret societies on Roshar, and he had thought his way into thinking Dalinar was part of them and that was how Dalinar was knowing certain things he was knowing. Which he really wasn't, he was getting from the storms and things like this, but he thought that Gavilar had confided things in Dalinar and that Dalinar would know more about this. And so he was kind of testing to see, and he was wrong.
What's the most RAFOd question that you're asked?
These days, it's about probably the sphere that Gavilar gave Szeth. That's probably the most commonly RAFOd one. But I'm not 100% sure. No, no, it's names of Shards that I haven't named yet. That's gotta be it.
What is the stone that Gavilar gave to Szeth before he died?
Good question, there are clues to what it is. (I'm going to try to get this answer right) if you decode [Navani's notebook] in the beginning of The Way of Kings you will find some significant clues to what the stone is. The [notebook] has already been decoded over at the 17th shard but I've never confirmed that those clues are in fact there. So go tell the 17th shard I confirmed that and they will love you for it.
Gavilar's black sphere. What was inside of it and how many does he have?
Well, it is what you think it is. And he had-- yeah... He had access to several. Did we canonize this Karen?
*shakes head*
No, we haven't canonized it. I'm going to say RAFO on the number, but it is what you think it is and what the third book implies that it is.
Looking toward book five; is the prologue with Gavilar going to be enormous at this point? Trying to wrap up all of the rest of the threads?
I do need to wrap up a lot of threads in that one.
20,000 word prologue?
We'll see. I haven't written it yet; we'll see how long it gets. I hope I'm not straying into Robert Jordan prologue territory. 90,000 word prologue? Oh really...
Szeth, when he writes when Gavilar dies, what language was that written in?
That was written in Alethi.
Where did Szeth learn Alethi?
He has been living among them for a long time, and Alethi was also part of his training.
At JordanCon, you said that Gavilar's black sphere was something that, "It's what you expect it to be." Does that mean that it's holding an Unmade?
Not necessarily. Voidlight can be trapped like Stormlight can. Unmade can be trapped like spren can. Does not mean that the sphere has an Unmade.
If Gavilar was still alive, would he most likely have aligned himself to or taken actions most similar to Dalinar, Amaram or Taravangian? In other words, which of the three is best acting out his will?
I can say he would align with one of them most certainly, but I want to RAFO this for now. (Though I might have made it clear elsewhere and not be remembering.)
In the beginning of Way of Kings, the first one, you start and Gavilar has a sphere that he passes off to Szeth and says "Give this to my brother, keep this safe away from them". It says it's dark but has its own inner light, but it hasn't been brought up again.
No.
Is it going to be brought up again?
It will be brought up again.
How-- Is it important? Or is it more mi--
It's important… ish.
Ish? Does it have anything to do with Odium?
Yeah.
So each anti-investiture is like its world's investiture, but can't be effected by it. So aluminum can't be affected and destroys Allomancy, ralkalest can't be Soulstamped, Shardblades are blunted by that one thing. Is the black filled sphere that Galivar gives to Szeth the anti-investiture to Stormlight?
When I asked this, he became much more tight-lipped and said that was an interesting theory and that I would learn more in book three.
The dark orb in the Stormlight prologue, is that native to Roshar? Or could it be from somewhere else?
I'm gonna explain what that is in the next book, so I'm going to RAFO that.
Awakening and Surgebinding, Stormlight and Breath seem really similar in some aspects--
Yes.
--except Breaths seem to stick to things better--
They do.
--than Stormlight. So when you are holding the Breath it doesn't expire when you put it in something it doesn't go away. Can you tell me something about why that's happening?
Part of this is kind of inherent to the Shard and the power it's coming from. I mean the power of Endowment is just going to stick, that's part of the nature of its magic. Does that make sense? But it also kind of has to do with how the ecosystems are working. For instance the Stormlight is essential to the ecosystem of Roshar, it needs to be expended, it needs to get out and-- It's like evaporation, does that make sense?
Recycling? Not the recycling but the cycle of--
Yeah, yeah like the cycle of water. And so just part of the way the nature of it works, it has to get out, it has to leak out, it has to run out. I mean it leaks even from spheres, right?
And when you lash things it's temporary--
Yep. And even though Szeth says that he thought Voidbringers could hold it they can't. Like it is just not the way that it works.
Can they just hold it better?
They can hold it better. It's not permanent. Now there are things that can do it permanently but--
Like the black sphere for example?
Well we are not going to... The black sphere is something different. You guys have guessed what the black sphere is, right?
Well we have some ideas. I support that it holds an Unmade. Am I wrong?
I'm not going to answer that.
But you said--
I'm just curious what the theories are. Book 3 the black sphere is-- Everyone who reads the books will know what the black sphere is by the end of Book 3.
What's with the black stone that the king gives Szeth?
It holds a secret that will be revealed in future books. I'd tell ya but they're recording me right here, so I can't tell you otherwise it gets out on the internet!
I was wondering, the point of views for the prologues *photo pause* will we ever see one from Gavilar's point of view?
That's a big ol' RAFO. Because I want it to be surprising to see who you get each book.
I was re-reading the prologues of WoK and WoR... and it seems like there's something wonky going on with the timelines.
Szeth claims Gavilar left the feast hours before he started doing his work.
Jasnah leaves the feast and finds Gavilar and Tearim. Gavilar mentions he's going to head back into the feast. Jasnah then has an adventure. She sees Ivory(?), speaks with Liss and two strange men, and then, what seems like a very short time later in her PoV hears the results of Szeth starting his job.
There's no way it took her hours to walk down two flights of stairs, briefly "drown", and have two short conversations!
Am I completely off base, or is there something going on here with Jasnah's perception of time?
It's less that, and more me (as the author) glossing over time passing with quick phrases like "after walking a short time" and the like.
So...all the 3 Way of Kings books begin from a different person's perspective in the past. Who're you doing next time?
Let me see...so Gavilar is last, so he's not fourth. I think it's Navani, but I'm not 100% sure. Yes, I think it's Navani, but I will have to look at what I've got in my notes. The 4th one's been the wild card. I always went with Szeth first and Gavilar last.
Did Taravangian go to see the Nightwatcher before or after Gavilar's assassination?
Um, oh man. I'm going to have to look at my timeline. I believe it's before, but I can't guarantee I'm right, because these things are all happening around the same time.
Because he says that Gavilar confided in him the night of.
Ooooh, you're right. Nope, it's after. It is after. You can send that question to Peter so we can confirm it. There might be something I'm forgetting about Taravangian.
In the Stormlight 5 prologue, wouldn't Gavilar have recognized that Szeth was holding an Honorblade? He was just studying them earlier that day.
Gavilar was pretty busy being killed.
That's a pretty good reason not to notice something.
I think it is possible that he could have noticed that, yes.
Amaram and Dalinar, they both talk about Gavilar a lot. How many secret societies did Gavilar know about or was he a part of?
Ah! How many did he know about? He knew of more than he was part of, but he was not part of very many.
Which Shardblade is this one? *points at illustration* I actually asked Isaac which one it was, and he told me to ask you.
Oh. I bet we haven't canonized it yet. Which is why he doesn't want to say. Normally, I let... 'Cause it's not any of the named ones, it's not Adolin's unnamed sword (well, it actually has a name now), it's not Sunraiser, it's not Oathbringer, so it's probably...
The one who has to do that is Ben McSweeney.
Mark was thinking it was Gavilar's sword.
It could be Gavilar's sword. Who else has one... Khal only has armor, not a blade. Really, what happens is, we have Ben McSweeney just draw a bunch of these, and then we canonize them as we need them to belong to certain people. But you can write to Ben and ask him to canonize it. And we'll just take what he says. Because it's not one of the ones that we... It's from one of Shallan's illustrations? Yeah. So, she saw it in the training field. So it's gotta be one of the Alethi blades. Could be the King's Blade.
Was Sadeas involved with Gavilar's death?
No, good question. He legitimately thought that Gavilar was a good king and so he legitimately wanted him to live. Sadeas had...his disagreements with Dalinar, he was way more ruthless, and things like this. But at the end of the day he really did want the kingdom to succeed and he did not want to be king.
Who was holding Szeth's oathstone when he was ordered to assassinate King Gavilar?
RAFO.
There seem to be several black trinkets in your books (Vin's obsidian chunk, the polished-to-a-metallic-look pendant Roadan receives as a wedding present, & the sphere Gavilar gives to Szeth) My question is...are these things related?
No. Unfortunately, you've seen a coincidental connection. Several of these things are important, but for different reasons.
How does corrupted investiture work, like Nightblood?
Oh, Nightblood. Again, this is a definition of what somebody feels is a corruption. For instance, there are spren that people would feel are corrupted. But that's corruption where the mixing of different Shards has changed things, and I think a lot of times when people say corruption, what they're meaning is the mixing of Shards' powers.
So is there a mixing of Shards' powers happening with Nightblood?
*smirks* RAFO. That's the natural question, I'm glad you asked it.
Ok, uhhh, so something similar is happening with Gavilar's sphere, right?
*contemplative silence* RAFO.
Did the mistress from the interlude in book 1 destroy the Shalash statue on the night of Gavilar's death?
Yes, and also all the other ones that we've seen, including the one in Shallan's vision in Words of Radiance.
Is the mistress Shalash?
RAFO.
How much do you plan in the cosmere? There were a few things in Rhythm of War [that went in] a different direction, like anti-Investiture, that black sphere Gavilar had in the prologue being anti-Investiture, and Testament and Shallan, were those always part of the plan or options?
Those were always options. Anti-Investiture has been pretty core for a long time, there are a couple reasons for this. Number one I need to get certain resources into the cosmere for use in the future, and anti-Investiture is one of those. Another reason is I want to push Stormlight Archive more towards magic-tech, because I'm pushing Mistborn more towards Earth analog with Earth technology and then some cool fantastical things thrown in, but when you're using the technology. When you're using a radio on Scadrial, it's a radio. You know what a radio is. It works based on radio principles, and maybe you can do some wacky things with weight, but an airship is kind of an airship to them where as I want Roshar which is on the opposite end of that spectrum. Where an airship on Roshar is not an airship like you would imagine. Its not being propelled in normal ways it's working off all these weird magical things. And anti-Investiture was an important thing to get into the series for the future for that reason.
From book one I knew I needed magical healing for Roshar, [for] the stories I wanted to tell to work. And I needed some really powerful magical healing. Particularly for the Knights Radiant, because of the stories I wanted to tell, this meant I was going to be very much under cutting the danger of physical violence in The Stormlight Archive as we move forward as the characters became Radiants. It is really hard to kill a Radiant in combat and there need to be foils to that.
Beyond that from the first chapter of the first cosmere novel Elantris, death has not been the end. [hosts laugh] We start the first book with someone being resurrected. That's one of the main themes of the cosmere is a second chance at life. This is Raoden's story, this is Lightsong's story, this is Kelsier's story, this is a major theme of the cosmere, and I needed to be introducing into the cosmere a "dead is dead" mechanic. And I considered Shardblades for that for a while, before I even released Stormlight. No, it can't be Shardblades, because I can't have every battle - once lots of people have Shardblades then there's no purpose to the magical healing. So I needed another tool for the late part of the cosmere, when people have figured out Cognitive Shadows; How do you destroy a Cognitive Shadow? Well there are ways, but throw some anti-Investiture at them and that's guaranteed, you are gonna kill that Shadow, and I'd been pushing towards where to get this in, and this book felt like the right place. It was either this book or book five, and where it settled into this book is where I finally made the decision that I was gonna let Navani be a main character, which she had been pushing to be for a while, and I'd been pushing back. No, I deserve to have a scientist, an actual straight up scientist main character in The Stormlight who can dig into some of this stuff. I can self-indulge by doing that, as long as I balance it with Kaladin behind enemy lines fight sequences and things, for a more traditional structure. Because Navani's scenes do not have a traditional structure. They're like "we're going to do science now! But we're making up the science also?!"
Could the Assassin in White assassinate Prof from the Reckoners?
Could he? Yeah, he could. Depends on what- which place in the books you would put him. But I would lay odds on Szeth in that one, in almost every situation. *laughter* Now, the thing is, it depends also on how familiar he is with Prof's powers, how much he's acting like an assassin, right? Which is what he's generally going to try to do, but... you know, Gavilar got a lot of warning. So, if Prof got a lot of warning... the more warning Prof has, the worse it looks for Szeth. But the further in the series Szeth goes - if you pick him from a different book--the more likely it is he's going to win.
'Cause he gets a hold of something very important. *laughter*
I took it a little easy over the Holidays, and actually worked on Stormlight 5's prologue as I'm eager to get to it.
Gavilar viewpoint. Final perspective on the book one prologue. Some interesting secrets revealed in this one...
If a Parshendi takes a parshman by the hand, gives them a gemstone with a spren in it, leads him out into a highstorm, can the parshman become a Parshendi in the same way that they become a voidbringer?
Now, yes, before no. The everstorm changed them, there’s something going on. In fact, as that scene continues, with Gavilar and Eshonai, there is a clue in that scene. But I didn’t get to that part.