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Now that we have canon art of Ishar, Shalash, Jezrien, and Vedel, what Rosharan nationalities would you say they resemble the most?
Jezrien and Vedel would be seen as Alethi, most likely. Shalash would be seen as Azish, while Ishar would be seen as Shin, probably.
Wait, but if Ishar looks like he’s from Shinovar, how did the Tukkari accept him as the God-Priest?
That's a RAFO--but is a question you're supposed to be asking.
Are these old Radiants?
Those are Heralds. That's Ash, who you'll see that the very end of this [Oathbringer]. That's Jezrien who's also near the end. You haven't met her [Vedel] yet. Ishar, you have heard about. And it's identified in this book who he is. But those are artist interpretations of them, in-world. They're like the Sistine Chapel versions of the Heralds. They might not look exactly like that, but that is an in-world interpretation of them by an artist.
Here are the lists of things that I've noticed could be reasons why certain Herald images get chosen. I also picked up on alot of this stuff because the folks over at Tor have done a WoR re-read and have a dedicated "Heraldic Symbolism" subsection they devote for each chapter. They speculate as to why the specific herald(s) were chosen. Specifically Alice Arneson (one of the re-readers) has seemingly done some good research into this, so I'll give her credit for a lot of this.
I mostly listed these out for my own reference as I've been meaning to do so (since I usually keep them in my head when figuring this out when reading).
Herald of <concept> - things associated with that concept. Known examples: 1) Shalash: Herald of Beauty 2) Nalan: Herald of Justice 3) Jezrien: Herald of Kings 4) Taln: Herald of War 5) Ishar: Herald of Luck
Roles associated with a herald Known Examples: 1)Chana: Guards 2)Taln: Soldiers/war 3)Ishar: Ardents/religion 4)Vedel: Physicians
Essences (https://coppermind.net/wiki/Ten_Essences ): Essence, body focus, Soulcasting properties...(this one is a stretch as I've never really could pinpoint this well enough)
Jester/Masked face (as mentioned in other posts on this thread). This can be tied to chapters with Wit them or tied to concepts related to him, the biggest one (I think) being storytelling.
How'd I do? :)
Note: I loved the "Four Lifetimes" chapter's heraldic symbolism in Oathbringer (I'm a little over halfway through the book), but I thought that was great showing the different roles/lives Kaladin has filled: Surgeon (Vedel), Soldier (Taln), Guard (Chana), and Leader/Windrunner (Jezrien). Bravo.
How did you do? Pretty much a home run. There's only one thing you're missing, which you may have implied, and that's the gemstones. Also, there's a little bit more to #5 that will be explored further later in the series.
Your "Four Lifetimes" analysis is spot-on. Congratulations.
Who drew [the Oathbringer endpapers]? Are they in-world art?
These are in world paintings done by the Oilsworn, one of the people Shallan studied when practicing her art. The actual paintings were done by the Oilsworn's real-world counterpart, Dan Dos Santos, who did the cover of Warbreaker.
There are two more pieces in the back, done by someone else, which are also in-world art pieces. They're all part of a larger theme, and are equally gorgeous.
I assume these are paintings of heralds, then?
These two [in the front of the book] are Ishar and Ash. The back two are Jezrien and Vedel.
Ash is so much more...shiny than I expected, but I guess that's Lightweaving for you. I love the space background too.
Remember, these are in-world artifacts. So this is how someone painted her from their imagination, based on lore. These are Rosharan versions of the paintings of the prophets along the top of the Sistine Chapel.
I just read Edgedancer. I was just wondering... Did Ishar deceive Nalan on purpose or was he just wrong-- he had wrong information?
All the Heralds are insane.
Okay.
It manifests in different ways. Do not trust anything any Herald says. Ever.
Okay.
Nale trusts Ishar too much.
Okay, but so did he do it on purpose, or...?
Um... So "on purpose" is a difficult thing when you're referring to someone with the psychology that Ishar has.
Did he know what it was-- that it was a lie?
*sighs* Alright, I'll RAFO that until I get to him, but the answer is kind of a yes and a no. Okay? So there is part of him that knows and there is part of him that doesn't want to believe it. And yet the things he's been doing lately in Roshar are done because he knows what's coming.
1) In their place of torture, are the Heralds able to communicate with each other or with other people/spren outside of that place? E.g. how is Ishar able to maintain his threat of severing the Nahel bond if he is being tortured for hundreds of years? 2)When the Heralds return to Roshar, do they appear like Schwarzenegger in Terminator (nude) or do they appear with the clothing they wore when they signed up for the Oathpact? 3)Are the Honorblades involved in the torture of the Heralds? Again, thank you for taking the time to interact with us fans and readers.
I have to RAFO questions along the lines of what you're asking. These are things that are relevant to books 6-10, which probably won't even be written for a decade. Talking about them too much now would be counter-productive, I feel. Sorry. :(
Can you confirm the real names of the Heralds for me? I have Jezrien (ˈjɛzɹən), Nale (for Nalan) - is that right?
Nale (neil) is what-- Nale is, yes, yes.
Chana [pronounced Shana] or Chana...
Yeah.
Vedel.
Vedel (vəˈdɛl), yeah. Chana (ˈt͡ʃænə) is also called Chanarach (ˈt͡ʃænəɹæt͡ʃ). Either one would be alright.
Okay, but her birth name...
Probably-- I think Chanarach is actually her birth name and Chana is the nickname.
Vedel... Pali, for Pailiah?
Yeah, I think Pali (ˈpæli) is the nickname in that case.
Okay, Ash?
No, that's a nickname.
What's the real one?
Shalash (ʃəˈlɑʃ).
That's not he just the Vorin...
No, that one was actually symmetrical.
Awesome. Battar (bəˈtɑɹ)?
Yes.
Kalak?
Kalak (kəˈlɑk), yes.
Talenel (tæləˈnɛl), with a nickname Taln (tæln)?
Yes.
And Ishar (ɪˈʃɑɹ)?
Yes.
I've wondered whether the portraits in chapter headings have some deeper significance.
Some of them correspond well to the contents of the chapters...
"The Four" is the first chapter to have four different portraits - Jezrien, Ash, Ishar, and Pailiah, representing the Radiant orders that Kaladin, Shallan, Dalinar, and Renarin belong to, respectively.
Vedel's portrait appears before Ym's and Lift's interludes (this suggests that Ym's other power was abrasion, just like Lift).
Battar's portrait for Jasnah's pov prologue; Battar's and Wit's portraits for the epilogue where Jasnah and Wit are the only characters.
Most others just seem random/unrelated:
Kaladin's earliest chapters in WoK were headed by Taln's portrait.
Eshonai's and Szeth's interludes have a variety of different Herald portraits, seemingly at random.
Taln's own interlude features Wit and Chach, of all things.
The correspondence can be from any column on the essences table in the Ars Arcanum, or a few columns that are not on the publicly revealed table.
Is there a row for when Hoid's portrait will show up?
They are not actually portraits of those characters. But there's not a row for the Masked Man.
She wanted me to ask, has Zahel ever had any other well known identity *inaudible* on Roshar?
RAFO...
*inaudible* if he's one of the Heralds then her guess is Ishar.
RAFO.
