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Are Inquisitor spikes, kandra Blessings and koloss spikes interchangeable? Like if you it spiked in a different way--
*Hesitant* You could make that work and it wouldn't be that hard. But just as they are, no.
Would nothing happen or would weird stuff happen?
Weird stuff would happen
*pause*
But that one's not very hard to make work.
This is a question about both The Stormlight Archive and the Mistborn series. Does The Thrill have anything to do with zinc, Rioters, or Allomancy in general?
"They work on very similar principles." Their magic is based on similar ideas, and they do have a lot in common. A specific example would be that, "they both can affect different people to different extents and in slightly different ways. You can see that in how the Thrill affects Dalinar, and how burning zinc affects kandra differently than others on Scadrial. That is because kandra have pierced souls, so Allomancy affects them differently."
I was wondering if the size of a piece of metal determines the amount of Feruchemical charge that can be stored in it.
Yes.
So how does that scale, like, in terms of the volume or mass of the metal or...
It-- So I've talked about this before, I'm trying to remember exactly what I've told people-- It does not scale as logically as you think it does. How about that? It's more like certain thresholds. You can have a-- You can store a Hemalurgic or Feruchemical charge even in very small pieces of metal, but larger pieces of metal will let you get more.
So it's kind of like there are different classes of sizes?
Yeah, kind of like that.
If someone used Hemalurgy to take someones Feruchemical abilities would they be able to use that persons personal metalminds? Most relevantly perhaps to take that person's knowledge from their copperminds?
Yes.
If someone stored their identity in an aluminium metalmind, then had their powers and metalminds stolen via Hemalurgy, then the person who took the powers used the aluminium metalmind to draw out the first persons identity would it permanently overwrite their personality with the original persons ? ( would kind of be a long winded way of stealing someone else's body and becoming immortal )
All Identity questions are a RAFO until I deal with it more in the books. (Sorry.)
If the spike granting Feruchemy were to be reforged/split into two distinct spikes which are then implanted into two different people, could those two people "share" a metalmind (as in actually be able to tap something the other stored and vice versa?).
It's complicated, but no.
There would be too much of the other person mixed in. Both could use the metalminds of the person the Feruchemy was stolen from, but when they made their own, their own Identity would "muddy" the creation.
If I have a Hemalurgic spike, can a Shardblade steal my soul? Don't the spikes ground your soul?
They basically staple pieces of things on your soul that can still be cut. No they couldn't steal it but they could still cut it.
What happens when you break a Hemalurgic spike or metalmind? What happens to that power?
Hemalurgic power can be split among multiple spikes and reforged, but remember that the longer a spike is outside of a person, the more the power is going to decay. Things like splitting it will decay it even further. Metalminds can also be broken and still be accessed
Given a situation where they have perfect knowledge of Hemalurgy--everything is known. Is it possible they could use a Shard-scalpel and spike to carefully...
To excise without killing somebody? The real damage is to the soul...
I'm imagining taking out toxic sort of things.
You've seen Vasher do something similar, so it's not off books that that's possible.
When I was designing the Three Metallurgic Arts for these books, I knew that I wanted Hemalurgy to have a built in flaw. A flaw that, as a deconstructionalist might say, was created intentionally and relied upon by the very force hoping it won't exploit it.
It was important to me that Ruin eventually be brought down, in part, because of things he did or flaws in his power. Preservation could simply build into the humans he created an innate goodness, then expect them to do as he hoped that they would. Ruin had to be able to directly corrupt and influence people. He felt himself stronger because he could MAKE them do exactly as he wanted.
The problem is, for his magic to work–for him to exercise control over someone–he had to leave a hole, so to speak, that other people could wiggle through and use. And so the entire "control the koloss" plot sequence in Book Two was intended to set up Hemalurgy, and in a way predict Ruin's fall.
Now, the only problem in all of this (for the heroes, at least) is that when Ruin actually got free, he was so strong that it was all but impossible for anyone else to "get through" the holes that he had left in his Hemalurgists. But it wasn't impossible. In a way, the foreshadowing in this book was meant to lay the seed that Ruin's control of his minions is not absolute. And an individual who wanted to resist him had that potential.
Is there a rationale to how Hemalurgic powers are distributed? I tried to look for a system, but they seem rather randomly distributed. For example, the spike which steals Allomantic powers for a particular quadrant is not always in one particular spot.
That is correct, it's not always in one particular spot. None of them are. I used as my model on this magic system the concept of acupuncture and pressure points. Placing a Hemalurgic spike is a very delicate and specific art. Imagine there being a different overlay on a human body, like a new network of nerves, representing lines, points, and 'veins' of the soul's spiritual makeup.
What is happening with Hemalurgy, essentially, is that you're driving a spike through a specific point on a person's body and ripping off a piece of their soul. It sticks to the spike on the Spiritual Realm. Then, you place that spike on someone else in a specific place (not exactly the same place, but on the right spiritual pressure point) and 'hot wire' the spirit to give it Hemalurgy or Feruchemy. It's like you're fooling the spiritual DNA, creating a work-around. Or, in some cases, changing the spirit to look like something else, which has the immediate effect of distorting the body and transforming it into a new creature.
Hemalurgy is a very brutal way of making changes like this, though, so it often has monstrous effects. (Like with the koloss.) And in most cases, it leaves a kind of 'hole' in the spirit's natural defenses, which is how Ruin was able to touch the souls of Hemalurgists directly.
Can an infused Hemalurgy spike be affected by Allomancy- steel pushes and iron pulls? Or does the charge interfere with the Allomancy much like a person's body would?
Anything infused (regardless of the world or magic that infused it) is resistant to magic. So you'd have a lot of trouble pushing or pulling on a spike, unless you had access to a boost of some sort to overcome the resistance.
Another hemalurgy question: Is it possible to steal more than just spiritual DNA with hemalurgy? If you, say, infused someone with a hundred hemalurgic spikes charged from people who liked chicken, would the spike person enjoy chicken as well?
You can steal quite a lot with Hemalurgy. Anything encoded on a person's soul, really. Not sure if chicken liking counts, though...
If someone (with the appropriate knowledge of where to place the spikes to be successful) were to spike Rysn and try to steal the power of the Dawnshard, what would happen?
A very bad time, for the person attempting it. Dawnshards self-protect.
If Dawnshards self-protect, what's the need for larkins and Sleepless?
They do self-protect. The larkins and Sleepless are there! You're assuming the larkins and Sleepless aren't there because of Dawnshard influence. Which is a false assumption.
What about Hemalurgy in other worlds other than Mistborn?
Yes.
I again asked with the exception of kandra, have seen Hemalurgy such as people who may have been spiked.
He repeated "You have seen Hemalurgy in other worlds."
Vasher uses Awakening in a very interesting way, off-stage, to modify the memories of the girl he rescues. Can Hemalurgy do the same thing if used carefully?
*long pause* No, I don't really think that it can. Nobody has asked that before, but just looking at the way the magics work, I don't think that is something that Hemalurgy is capable of doing.
The Hemalurgy table, you wrote down "atium steals any power, lerasium is all abilities, nicrosil is Investiture"; what's the difference between those three?
Hemalurgic atium, lerasium, and nicrosil. What's powers, abilities, and Investiture?
People are Invested in ways that do not give them active powers. So for instance, everyone on Nalthis is Invested. Everyone in the cosmere is, really. You want to steal their Investiture, but they don't have a power. You're still ripping off a piece of their soul. So there is a distinction between the actual Investiture that's in a human being and a specific power that they have.
So that distinction is pretty easy. You can also, with Hemalurgy, steal specific things. You can steal just general Investiture. You can steal, if you want--this is where the kandra Blessings come from. You can instead steal specific things that are not like stealing Allomancy. Stealing, for instance, someone's mental acuity.
So abilities is like the half that's all the strength, speed, all that kind of stuff? Those are abilities, versus the Metallic Arts are all powers?
Yes.
Then Investiture, is that offworld magics?
No, no, it's the raw power.
Nicrosil is their soul?
Yes. A piece of their soul, essentially.
So how would you go about stealing an offworld power?
It's going to depend. A Breath, you would steal with nicrosil. It's general Investiture, is what you would probably going call that. You could forcibly remove someone's Breath from them. The ability to be a Sand Master you would steal with the power ability.
The Lost Metal Ars Arcanum calls Hemalurgic decay a thing of the past. The term has been used to describe the loss of power in spikes outside of bodies, as well as the small amount of power that is lost at the moment a spike is created. Which one of those things no longer happens?
The first one, the decay of spikes outside of a body. They have figured out how to make that no longer a thing.
So it's still a thing that happens in the cosmere, they just know how to avoid that completely?
Yes.
How long does it take for someone who has had four iron spikes in to become a koloss, how fast are the changes?
Very quickly!
I have a question about Mistborn. Is it possible for a spike to steal powers from other worlds?
It is possible, yes.
And, by extension, Feruchemical storage... in the metalmind...
Oh, in the metalmind, if they had the other power, could they store the power...
If there is the Feruchemist, like the...
So that is theoretically possible, but it would take a lot of finagling. Yeah, theoretically possible.
Is that just imagination, or do Hemalugic spikes have to have a flat side??
Most do, but it isn't required.
So I could be wrong, but a Hemalurgic spike, when you use it and become a savant it does damage to your Spiritweb, right?
Yes Hemalurgy always hurts you.
So say you go to Roshar and you give somebody a Hemalurgic spike for some Allomantic power, don't care what, and you use it to become a savant. Does that qualify them as 'broken' enough to become a Radiant? As long as they are also following the Ideals to attract a spren.
So becoming a Radiant is a spectrum of terminologies. It... probably, but you would have to find a Radiant who would, or a spren who would be willing to touch that, okay? It's going to drive them back.
So would it also affect your probability of becoming an Elantrian?
Yeah it would affect your ability to become anything else, yes.
Okay, so would it be a positive effect, negative effect...? Because I was like, it gives you cracks in your Spiritweb.
It does give you cracks in your Spiritweb.
So it's easier for Investiture to get in. Does it make it easier for other Investitures to get in?
It would make it... yes. It's going to drive spren away. So what it's really going to make easier for, there, is spren and Investiture that doesn't care.
Okay, so Investiture doesn't care but spren do.
Investiture might care depending on if it's part of a Shard-- if it has intent and things like this.
So it might let Stormlight in easier than a Breath, type thing.
I'm saying it might let Odium in easier than Syl. Because Syl would care, and Odium would not care.
Okay cool.
Alright, so it could be a really bad thing, is what I'm trying to say to you.
Yeah that's cool. I just want to know more about gold too. Gold Allomancy too. Because Miles was doing some funky stuff.
Miles was doing some funky stuff.
And were I minded to, could I kill Kaladin with a Hemalurgic spike and steal his Windrunning? (I don't want to kill Kaladin)
You can steal most things with Hemalugy, but Surgebindings are tricky because of the spren. Requires some non-standard workings.
If someone is attacked by a Hemalurgist, could they be healed with Regrowth?
So, if they were attacked by a Hemalurgist, then yes. If Hemalurgy were done to them, then it's a much more difficult thing, and that's gonna depend on a lot of factors.
In the different worlds, can you spike people Hemalurgically with materials other than metal? Say, you create a wood spike for Breath, or a gem spike for Surges?
RAFO.
Hemalurgically, atium steals Allomantic Temporal Powers. But, that seems unlikely, since atium is a god metal. It wouldn't fit in with the rest of the magic system. Did Preservation, in addition to switching cadmium and bendalloy for atium and malatium, also switch atium's Feruchemical and Hemalurgic powers with cadmium? Because it seems to me there's not a lot of atium Marsh can use to live for hundreds of years into the next Mistborn trilogy.
Preservation wanted atium and malatium to be of use to the people, as he recognized that it would be a very powerful tool—and that using it up could help defeat Ruin. But he also recognized that sixteen was a mythological important number, and felt it would make the best sign for his followers. So he took out the most unlikely (difficult to make and use) metals for his sign to his followers. But that doesn't have much to do with Hemalurgy's use here.
Remember that the tables—and the ars Arcanum—are 'in world' creations. (Or, at least, in-universe.) The knowledge represented in them is as people understand it, and can always have flaws. That was the case with having atium on the table in the first place, and that was the case with people (specifically the Inquisitors) trying to figure out what atium did Hemalurgically.
Their experiments (very expensive ones) are what determined that atium (which they thought was just one of the sixteen metals) granted the Allomantic Temporal powers. What they didn't realize is that atium (used correctly) could steal ANY of the powers. Think of it as a wild card. With the right knowledge, you could use it to mimic any other spike. It works far better than other spikes as well.
As for Marsh, he's got a whole bag of atium (taken off of the Kandra who was going to try to sell it.) So he's all right for quite a while. A small bead used right can reverse age someone back to their childhood.
But this was a little beyond their magical understanding at the time.
Can being an Allomantic Savant be transferred through Hemalurgy?
A Savant cannot be, good question. No one's asked me that before.
With spikes, would you be able to actually transfer Breaths, when they get to the other planets?
So spikes rip off pieces of the soul and so Breaths are not going to be part of the soul. You could maybe get a divine Breath but I haven't really decided on regular Breaths, they're kind of stuck there in the Physical Realm which is not a thing that spikes are dealing with. Divine Breath, potentially, because that's something that's actually melding onto your soul. But, you know, when you're using the Breaths they reach through to the Spiritual Realm so, maybe if you got it while the Breaths were kinetic, right, while you're using them, then you might be able to rip them off. I'm not a hundred percent certain on that one.
There's still things to decide upon.
Yeah there's still things, like I have to kind of see. My instinct says no right now. But, you know, how they interact is not something that I have-- Yeah.
If you have a Hemalurgic spike made of atium, that grants atium Allomancy, could you use the spike itself as a source of atium to burn?
Briefly.
Is there any relationship between Hemalurgic bindpoints and the body focuses in Surgebinding? Specifically, the eyespikes and the eyes being a body focus in Surgebinding?
The relationship is there, but it's not a very strong connection.
Could someone who is spiked, not on Scadrial, still talk to the Shards?
Yes. Little asterisk, but yes.
If a mistwraith eats a Koloss will it [?].
If a Mistwraith eats a Koloss, you're asking "will it become it", um, "will it gain sapience because it now has Feruchemical* spikes?" Any Feruchemical* spike is not necessarily enough to make the creature we call 'Kandra', but there may be very weird side effects to what you just described.
You’ve spoken before how DNA exists on multiple different levels in your magic systems. I was curious about something else that I think I read that that the Hemalurgy system actually splices something into the DNA - so what does that imply for heritability of those?
So, it is not inheritable when it's Hemalurgic because it's splicing. It's basically ripping off a piece of the soul and spiking it on someone else's. So, it would not transfer.
If a spike has gone too long without being stored in blood, will it completely lose its charge?
It will never completely lose its charge.
If you Stamp yourself, to have another, overwritten spiritweb, and you get Spiked-- *laughter* What would happen?
We actually worked this out. *laughter*
Well, you'd die, or very close to it, but would it revert when the Stamp reverts?
So what’s probably going to happen here is that you’re going to rip off the Investiture you’ve put on your soul, and your own soul will have less damage. Now, the spike is only gonna get the-- the spike, you're like "What will it do?" It will do what you've been overwritten with, but again remember, becoming an Allomancer takes so much energy, and things like-- But it is theoretically possible in the cosmere to rewrite yourself "You're an allomancer", someone spikes you to get this. The Investiture doesn't care that it was fake on you, you have managed to get that Investiture to work. Uhh, this is really tough. And really, like, you need Connection, and you need, like, the right kind of Investiture, but then it rips off and yes you have made a spike that makes you an Allomancer, even though the person was a Forger. So yes, okay? But this is the kind of stuff that is like the thought experiments for physicists in the cosmere as opposed to, y'know--
Can Hemalurgy be used to steal Shardblades directly, transferring ownership from the victim to the spike's recipient without a need for the recipient to physically take the Shardblade first?
A novel use of Hemalurgy which is not outside the sphere of its powers.
Could one, using a Hemalurgic spike, acquire a Divine Breath from one of the Returned?
...This should be possible.
You've said that Returned count as Cognitive shadows "stapled" back into their bodies, and that the Heralds are at least similar. Would I be right in assuming that Elantrians could be considered as Cognitive Shadows as well, or am I barking up the wrong tree?
Elantrians are something different. They don't actually "die" to be created.
Recognize that the term Cognitive Shadow is an in-cosmere theory, which I'm not going to comment on as the creator of the setting. The theory is this:
Investiture seeks sapience. It looks for someone to control it or, in some instances, spontaneously adopts personality.
A mind (Cognitive aspect of a person) can become infused with Investiture. This acts a little like minerals with petrified wood, replacing the mind and personality with investiture.
When the actual person dies, this investiture imprint remains behind. A copy of the soul, but not the actual soul.
Others disagree with this, and think the soul itself persists. Still others reject the theory in its entirety.
Huh.
... Kandra are almost literally stapled to their bodies with Hemalurgy - would they count as such, to the in-setting scholars?
No, they wouldn't. They are beings who have had their souls twisted by Hemalurgy--the soul never left, it's just been messed up. Someone else who has a soul stapled to a body with Hemalurgy would count though.
We've seen Kandra True Bodies made of crystal, stone, or wood. Can a kandra use a True Body made of metal? If so, what happens if each metal "bone" had a Hemalurgic charge, and each one is touching an appropriate bind point?
Yes. And that would work, better than you think, because Kandra have fluid bind points. But too many spikes can be dangerous to the psyche, even with Ati not messing things up.
Could you make a spike from a Lifeless?
"Oooo interesting!" He said their soul is so drained there wouldn't be much left, so you could only get the barest hint.
But you COULD technically get a charge?
Yes, but it would be very weak.
When you a get a Hemalurgic spike, if you just immediately... tap gold, do you lose the spike, or is the spike already in there and can't get out?
Okay: so hemalurgic spike, tap gold? RAFO.
Can a Shardblade, dead or alive, become a Hemalurgic spike?
It's already too strongly Invested for this. It couldn't hold anymore charge.
*reading a personalization request* Could a Rosharan be--
Hemalurgically spiked with a gem or fabrial?
*presumably writes RAFO in book*
*exasperated "ugh" sound*
Haha.
Hoid has said that what he does, when he heals or comes back to life or whatever, heals the soul
Yes.
But Hemalurgy is like ripping off a piece of the soul. Could he heal that?
It is possible. Well, his particular brand of healing is very Spiritual Realm based. And so, it would-- he could. Not all brands of healing are capable. It depends on what's happening, and things like that. But yes, he would. Most Shardbearers [Surgebinders?] when they're in the throes of their powers would heal spiritually. *brief pause* Not all of them. Not all healing will do that, though.
Yeah. Because I was thinking that maybe you could spike him multiple times and compound his power.
Yes. Spiking him could do some weird things though. But spiking can do weird things to anyone.
Trellium could be Hemalurgy-viable without Trell messing with magic?
Yeah, I'll go ahead and give you [a RAFO card].
Are the Hemalurgic constructs in Shadows of Self as twisted as they are because... something was spiked out of them?
Okay the Hemalurgic...
Or something spiked into them?
We're talking about who?
The Hemalurgic constructs in the catacombs.
There's something spiked into them.
Is there anything spiked out of them? Making them more feral?
That's a RAFO, but-- Let's just say this it's a RAFO with the star of "Nobody knows how spike someone without killing them right now." So it's a "Most likely, just spikes in."
Could you spike the ability to grow a gemheart out of a singer?
Yes, I think you could. Yeah.
Can you get a Hemalurgic spike for writing skill?
Hemalurgy is a lot more varied than what it's been used for so far.
Atium is the best metal to use for Hemalurgy. Does *burning* atium help you figure out where to put the spikes?
Anything that gets you a glimpse of the Spiritual Realm could help with placing spikes.
Would flaring iron and steel also help?
No, not without additional help.
If you attempted to use Hemalurgy on a gold compounder, would they survive?
I'll RAFO that. There are certain things...follow the lead of the books as they explain this more and more. It's an excellent question that you should be asking, but I'm not going to answer right now.
Could an old [Feruchemist] go and transfer his Coppermind to his star pupil using Hemalurgy?
Like Deliberate…? Right. Ask me that question after you’ve read a few more Mistborn books.
Supposing that a skilled Hemalurgist got hold of some a Shardblade or some Shardplate, how would he best use it assuming that the best way isn't to put it on and kill people with it.
That's probably the best way, to put it on and kill people with it. I'm not sure why a Hemalurgist would want one more than anyone else would because the metal is already Invested which means its not useful to him.
So there is no way that he could use a Hemalurgic spike to take some power from the Spren that's crafting it.
Oh, that's what you're saying. You want to grab something off the Spren? That's gonna be way harder than grabbing one that's not already made into something. So I don't see why he would want the Blade, just go grab it from them. Even then its going to be worse then, probably in most cases, a person. Maybe its possible that spiking yourself with a Spren would be valid, but you don't want to take it out of the Shardblade. That's gonna be harder, but you would probably have to go to the Cognitive either way to make it work, so yeah.
Is it theoretically possible to Hemalurgically spike a Shard into someone else, and if so, what would be the outcome?
A full shard? Hemalurgy could not hold that much of an Invested charge... not... yeah, like a hemallurgic spike really couldn't hold that much. Not without something really weird happening, so.
Will there still be Hemalurgy in the Alloy of Law series?
Yes.
What inspired Hemalurgy?
So Hemalurgy was probably-- It's hard for me to say, because it's been fifteen years, but I think I started with the image of the Inquisitors with spikes through their eyes. At the same time I was trying to work up a third magic system to go in the trilogy so I could have one magic, two magic, three magic, and I wanted one that was super creepy and evil. And I built it around those two ideas.
